Type 4 turbo: 2,2 ltr: New cooling system

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 6:45 am

Oh yeah! For 2008 I hope to build a 103x66 turbo type 4, made largely around the remains of my destroyed 2,7 N/A engine
Very likely the damaged 103 oettinger alu-nikasil cylinders can be honed and shortenend to just have a 66 stroke with a high-pinned piston.

The cam will be a Webcam 163 on a 114 LC with light-weight (56 gramm) type 1 tool steel lifters (ThorstenP)
Valves will be a set of dual Scats. The original 2,7 heads were fine, except for two bend valves, which will of course be replaced (and the rest of the necc. work done to the heads to make all fine again). Some special head-cylinder sealing technique will be thought of to keep the boost in as long as possible. boost setting will be mild though, probably between 7,5-14,7 psi (0,5-1,0 bar max)

Exhaust will be my old stainless BAS header, dry-sump (26/38mm) again too.

For a BOV I have bought a used HKS SSQV (sequential) unit on ebay for cheap and for a turbo a slightly used ball bearing IHI VF34 will be used.
BOV:

Induction will be the same 48mm Jenvey's from the 2,7 with some CB turbo-hats and 500cc (equivelent of about 490 lbs/min) Ford Motorsport injectors.

If everything goes well, oil squirters (originals from porsche) will be installed as well and the case will probably get 6 dowels (on each main web) too.

Here a pic of the first machined part for the engine (arp2000 bolts to be fitted later):

Its the biggest Godspeed IC I could find and these are quite cheap actually ($100 iirc)
The Tilton pump is for sucking exit-oil from the probably low hanging turbo lateron.
This is the place (old ducktail) where the intercooler will be made/fitted into:

Updates as progress is being made

jonas_linder · Post by **jonas_linder** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm

Great !!!!

What happend to your 2.7?

I must have missed it

Post by **Piledriver** » Sat Dec 15, 2007 4:07 pm

Yes, inquiring minds want to know.

Also wonder where you ended up getting the rod bushings..

What's ~the power limit on the 1.7 rods?

Jake indicated that he feels their rev limit is ~7K, better bolts won't help IIRC.

Those ARE purty.

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:56 am

jonas_linder wrote:Great !!!!

What happend to your 2.7? I must have missed it

Yeah, you obviously did, but this thread isn't about the 2,7..

Anyways, both rod bolts of my one-of-kind (actually 3 sets were made back then) custom - 356-like - rods broke in the last period of the last track day of this year...

Total disaster. Here are the sad details if you want to see more:
http://www.bug-talk.com/international/v ... .php?t=367

BTT pls

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 2:04 am

Piledriver wrote: Also wonder where you ended up getting the rod bushings..

Ahnendorp did all the machine work on those. The 22mm pin bushings didn't cost more then new 24mm ones installed

What's ~the power limit on the 1.7 rods?

Jake indicated that he feels their rev limit is ~7K, better bolts won't help IIRC.

So why ask me if you already mention one sentence later you have found your answer to your own question somewhere else?

Those ARE purty.

Yeah, I agree and over 100 gramms lighter and the surface work probably didn't make them weaker. The original rod ratio of the 66 stroke is favourable too: 1.92 (127/66)

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 8:45 am

The stock 1.7/1.8 rods coupled to the stock stroke are another story than the 2.0 units we usually converse about.

The better rod ratio of these does seriously help the failure points. In some lower buck F production engines, including our development engine I have turned a stock rod to 8.5K with only better bolts installed.

The one failure I have experienced was a beam failure, not a bolt failure. The key is piston weight and good combustion balance as well as dynamic balance.

I no longer remove beam material when prepping these rods, we use ISF procedures to polish the rods with minimal material losses in the beam area.

Wally- FYI we do offer a billet rod with the 1.8 ig end, stock length and 22mm small end, these are what we created with LN for our FP competition engines.... If you want to eliminate the possibilities of another scattering experience caused by rods..

jonas_linder · Post by **jonas_linder** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 9:49 am

Wally: Ofcourse let's talk about the turboengine

(to bad about the other engine though

)

You mentioned the IHI VF34, any more specs ??

Are you going for a air-air-intercooler ? I would suggest a smaller IC (or the big one

) but watercooled instead, it makes for a much nicer looking install!

Keep the updates coming, I have been waiting all fall for a nice project thread like this

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:42 am

Beam failure?

I surely don't want to be around when that happens!
But OTOH, this is a turbo engine and everyone always says they don't rev to the moon to make power. I don't even expect it to make top hp after 6K, but probably between 5,5 and 6K.

Jonas, yes, that the spirit

The intercooler you see, will be it and the location is obvious now right?

IHI is one of the very few other manufactors that also make ball bearing turbos and since this is a production model, they do appear from time to time. Its from a limited production WRX STi V7 2,0 model, just before they went to 2,5 ltr iirc. The turbos didn't got larger with the 2,5 ltrs though; they just spooled earlier, which is usual production-car policy.
IIRC, it puts out 460 CFM and can sustain 350 FWHP according to suby tuners, but I am not gonna make that or aim for that.

Well, all the ingredients have been mentioned, not its just waiting for machine work to finish, which will take some time.

Post by **Piledriver** » Sun Dec 16, 2007 12:18 pm

So why ask me if you already mention one sentence later you have found your answer to your own question somewhere else?

RPM limit and power limit aren't related, was simply wondering if you knew anyone running boost on them.

I have all the bits to do a 1.8 in 1.7 register heads...

jonas_linder · Post by **jonas_linder** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:45 am

Wally wrote:Beam failure? I surely don't want to be around when that happens!
But OTOH, this is a turbo engine and everyone always says they don't rev to the moon to make power. I don't even expect it to make top hp after 6K, but probably between 5,5 and 6K.

Jonas, yes, that the spirit
The intercooler you see, will be it and the location is obvious now right?

IHI is one of the very few other manufactors that also make ball bearing turbos and since this is a production model, they do appear from time to time. Its from a limited production WRX STi V7 2,0 model, just before they went to 2,5 ltr iirc. The turbos didn't got larger with the 2,5 ltrs though; they just spooled earlier, which is usual production-car policy.
IIRC, it puts out 460 CFM and can sustain 350 FWHP according to suby tuners, but I am not gonna make that or aim for that.

Well, all the ingredients have been mentioned, not its just waiting for machine work to finish, which will take some time.

It sounds like a good recepie! It would be intresting if you measured back pressure, the turbos that come on stock engine is usually "too small".
Actually, my evo8turbo is going on a stock 2L, almost stock anyway.. you will hopefully see a thread about it soon

With that turbo, the engine will be a CV-ripper for sure

I just don't like the look of the "tail"

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 10:56 am

There are stock models and 'stock' production models of course... hehe.
Any turbo that flows enough for 300 hp at 1 bar is more than enough for this engine.

BTW, What do you mean by 'tail' ?

Do you think my 500cc/min injectors will be enough for this engine combo?

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:00 am

The duck*tail*.

500cc should be plenty!

Don

Wally · Post by **Wally** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:56 am

Figures..

tnx Don!

I think the 'tail' is sooo appropiate for a large air-air intercooler

Once it has the same colour and all, you will see its coool and everybody wants one (again)

jonas_linder · Post by **jonas_linder** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:05 am

Wally wrote:Figures..
tnx Don!

I think the 'tail' is sooo appropiate for a large air-air intercooler
Once it has the same colour and all, you will see its coool and everybody wants one (again)

I doubt it

500cc, depends on the hp goal of your engine

and how effecint it becomes!

Sandeep · Post by **Sandeep** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:02 am

Welcome to the DARK SIDE Wally !!

I'm using 599cc injectors @ 20 psi on the 2.0 with a duty cycle of about 74% @ 7000 rpm. I'm planning to use these on the 2.4L but I think your 490cc injectors should be fine.

The IHI VF34 you have is similar to the IHI VF39 I'm using. Tuners report that 300 WHP is the limit but that is more than enough, considering its for a 4WD Subaru !

When warmed up, my turbo 'whistles' at idle indicating that it is spinning so you should be good to go.

The HSK BOV is loud

What size of clutch / pp are you using ? Boost control ?

Good luck on the project Wally, I don't think you'll ever go back to an N/A motor after driving a turbo ... the power is effortless and always there.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Sandeep