My 2939 Build Changed To a 2842

[bottomend]

Yea, something like this would be sweet,but I'm stuck in the poor-house for the time being. It's nice to dream though....

[Type 4 Unleashed]

Oooooooooooooooh...Shiny...!


End play look OK w/3 shims?

(I hear it's an issue on many of the T1 Chinese cranks)

I have a set of align bore bearings and the block cut for them, (and decked and otherwise in awesome shape)
... but in std ID (Aren't expensive miscommunications great?)
Been looking for something to stick in it for ~7-8 years now.

Let me know as soon as those rods check out.
Dibs. Or something.

I mocked the motor back up today, and used 10mm thru bolts and torqued the case to 30 pounds, I installed a flywheel to check end play, end play came out to .042"-1.067mm, so I'll use 3 .012"-.305mm shims, leaving a .006"-.152mm end play.

[bottomend]

Do you convert from Standard to Metric in your head!?

[Type 4 Unleashed]

Do you convert from Standard to Metric in your head!?

Some of it, it's getting to be second nature

[Type 4 Unleashed]

HA HA it's building time, Xmas early, I finally got my rods, 5.7" H beams that fit the 2.0 ltr jrl crank.

They will be sent out next week, to have the pins either honed out from 22mm to 23.5mm-.927" Chevy or re bushed, and re sized & re tanged to take the Dodge bearings.

With the 84mm crank they will only provide a 1.72 rod to stroke ratio, Oh Well, I will have to suffer through it.

I weighed them, 584 grams, not as light as I would have hoped.

Ignore the other rods in the pics,

[Type 4 Unleashed]

Just got back from Las Vegas, and was able to come back with an infusion of project money So I'll get the rest of the little pieces that I need, and finish up the rest of the machine work.

All that's left for machine work is having the crank and flywheel 5 pinned and having the cyl's cut for the sealing wires. Oh and getting the rods re sized.

Parts, most of them I'll order tomorrow, cam will be a Pauter, around .580" lift and around 332* dur, manifolds I will order from Ahnendorp, which are a very beefy and have lots of material around the port area to allow porting to some very large ports with out the added expense of having to have the manifolds welded up. The manifolds aren't cheap, but over all they are a cheaper route. Oh, these manifolds I came across by accident, but after I saw them, I decided I had to have a pair. A neat option they have, is they have double bolt patterns for the carbs, which allow you to turn the carbs around on the manfold.

I've been checking on whats offered on cams & by who, on Ahnendorp's site some of there cams I believe to be from Pauter, and from what I could gather they have 103* lobe centers, Remmelle offers the same Pauter cams plus their own and their lobe centers are 108*, Fat Performance cams, Type 4 and even their off road Toyota cams have 102* lobe centers, generally WEB cams are 104*, Eurorace cams are 106*. So I have a choice to make ?

I'll post up some pics of the finished items, as they become available.

[Racer Chris]

Just got back from Las Vegas, and was able to come back with an infusion of project money So I'll get the rest of the little pieces that I need, and finish up the rest of the machine work.
..
.

Good deal!

[Ephry73]

This is going to be a good one for sure.


E

[Type 4 Unleashed]

I picked up the head today, that I droped off last week; here are the flow results, and a set of comparison results which I borrowed from jonas_linder's heads, which are 44 x 40, mine are 48 x 38:

Jonas's Heads___________________________My Heads

Liftmm__Liftinch____INT____EX--------Liftmm__Liftinch____Int____Ex

2mm___.078_______40.1___39.1------2.54mm_.100_____ 63____42

4mm___.157_______78.7___61.4------3.81mm_.150______97____62

6mm___.236______110.8___83.5------5.08mm_.200_____127____81

8mm___.315______143.6__103.7------6.35mm_.250_____151____94

10mm__.394______167.9__119.7------7.62mm_.300_____163___104

12mm__.472______180.3__132.7------8.89mm_.350_____174___113

14mm__.551______190.4__140.6-----10.16mm_.400_____181___121

16mm__.630______196.4__146.6-----11.43mm_.450_____188___128

-------------------------------------------------12.70mm_.500_____196___132

-------------------------------------------------13.97mm_.550_____200___135


It seems I'm lacking in the exhaust flow area a little ? When it was flowed the chamber fixture only had a 101 mm bore, but the flow guy said that he didn't think it shrouded the valves to much ? Also he said generally the int cfm are about what the engines HP will be ?

I did want it flowed to .600"-15.24mm valve lift, but the guides were not trimmed down , so not enough room.

So the 86b/86c cam should take care of the exhaust flow ? Yes there is an implied question there

[Passatman]

Richard is that a crack i see on the inside cylinder head bolt holes.

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

Richard,
I'd be running a hefty amount of split duration on that cam, or I'd split the centers to help make up for the percentage.

I'd say the issue isn't that the exhaust are flowing too little, but rather the intakes are flowing too much! This is a common problem with TIV heads and port work, adding a huge valve can make it worse.

That exhaust port, even with all the welding and work that has been done isn't keeping up with our LE 200 exhaust port profile, that isn't welded.. That doesn't suprise me at all because I learned long ago that what looks good sometimes doesn't flow as well. I'd certainly like to see some port velocity numbers as well as comparison. We have the velocity numbers for the LE 200s, did they use any velocity probes on your heads?Jonas' heads flow nearly identical to that of the LE 200 on the exhaust, are Jonas' heads welded? I note that they do have the same 44mm intake that we use

To make the ratios worse your intake port flows MORE through mid lift that our does on the LE 200 head, from .150-.300 lift you have use by a few percent on the intake. That means the ratios at those very low lift values will be pretty wacky and the low lift values are critical to mixture quality and wet flow that impact throttle response, especially at lower speeds.

Here is a graph from my site showing the LE 200 port flow for comparison sakes. Remember that these heads are NOT welded in the intake or exhaust area...They have 44X36 valves...

It looks like the old standby "48X38" might have bit you in the ass a bit... I learned long ago that that valve combo makes for nothing but trouble with the Type 4 cylinder head.

Jonas sure has some nice numbers on his heads and I can really see where that 40mm exhaust valve shows improvement. The plots I have from a 40mm valved, non welded exhaust port are very similar to what he has...

Split duration is certainly your best friend with those heads and I'd use no less than 14 degrees if it were me and I'd probably split the centers too!

Here is some proof that bigger isn't better. Compare this LE 200 exhaust port with that of Richards welded port pictured above.

Kep in mind that he has 2mm LARGER exhaust valve than the LE 200 head hasas well and still doesn't make the same flow as the smaller port and smaller valve produce with this head.

Also now that you are looking at both pics pay close attention that Richard's mods have seriously impeded the capability for cooling air to be circulated past the exhaust ports, this is a HUGE advantage that the TIV has over a TI engine because cooling this hottest porion of the head will keep heat soak down considerably. Now look at the non welded head and see how those all important fins are left intact allowing cooling air to freely circulatearound 3 sides of the exhaust port. This means that not only did these mods impede flow, but they also had a negative impact on the cylinder head's ability to cool-

Now look at the intake ports..

Its easy to see that our LE 200 ports are smaller than the intakes in the pictures of Richard's heads. His heads only beat us in flow numbers from .150-.300 by a few %, shouldn't that bighger port kick our ass all around??? The answer is no! Port shape and design is the single biggest player in the flow of the Type 4 intake.

Bigger isn't better- One day people will learn that!

Richard, I am not attacking your heads or making an example of you as an individual- don't think that! I am using your numbers, pictures and post to help some of the members of this board to further understand that bigger isn't better in general and that what looks good certainly may not be good. I'll add to this by saying that dry flow numbers are only one thing, until the engine isassembled, dynoed and driven and then compared to another set of numbers and seat of the pants results you'll never really know how good something really is.. I applaud your desire to plunder at these depths and can only say I was there years ago!

I'll close by saying that these results are what I expected from those valve sizes and port mods.

Oh yeah- I forgot.. Remember thatthe plug relocation is good fo 5-8% poer gains and as much as 10%

[Type 4 Unleashed]

That's Ok, pick on me, pick on my heads, but then I wouldn't of climbed into the oven if was was worried about heat

Jonas & Jake were your heads flowed with or with out stub pipes ?

There are a couple of things the guy who flowed them suggested, to improve flow.

Exhaust wise, he said there needs to be a third cut on the ex seat, a 60* bottom cut, he said that would help the transition into the port, and that would make a difference. Also to clear out the guide & boss, to increase flow, and if I wanted the full flow potential of the valve pocket & port that it would need at the bare minimum a 40mm valve.

I hadn't looked at the seats closely, and hadn't know there wasn't a 60* bottom cut, I already knew cleaning out the valve and boss would help, and a bigger ex valve. Actually these heads are for a friend, My heads are the same except for even bigger Int & Ex ports.

I had these flowed to get an idea of issues, and to get an idea of where to go, not that I didn't already know. I had already intended on going almost a 42mm ex valve.

Int wise, a set of matched ported manifolds or smaller ported manifolds would of been bettter, the manifolds had a slightly larger port than the head ports, so flow values would of been better, but that would of thrown the int & ex values out even more. There is still more on the int issue, but i'll bring that up later.

[jonas_linder]

Hi guys!

My heads are not welded and they where flowed with clay on the intake and with nothing on the exhaust!

edit. my heads has a full radius cut and only cut 45.. my friend didn't have time for the 30 before the dynoday where I flowed my heads. I think the low lift would benefit from the 30 too!

I have one untouched sandblasted head that I got from Jonas N. At the time that I recived it I missed the buss so I ended looking at the head for about 1 hour straight Give you alot of stupied idéas

If I would weld I would do it in the port

Jake >> What is the highest cfm you have gotten without welding?

I know you don't look for high flowing heads, but good heads, but I have realised that that means the same on a type4 head

[Type 4 Unleashed]

Hi guys!

My heads are not welded and they where flowed with clay on the intake and with nothing on the exhaust!

edit. my heads has a full radius cut and only cut 45.. my friend didn't have time for the 30 before the dynoday where I flowed my heads. I think the low lift would benefit from the 30 too!

I have one untouched sandblasted head that I got from Jonas N. At the time that I recived it I missed the buss so I ended looking at the head for about 1 hour straight Give you alot of stupied idéas

If I would weld I would do it in the port

Jake >> What is the highest cfm you have gotten without welding?

I know you don't look for high flowing heads, but good heads, but I have realised that that means the same on a type4 head

Hey Jonas

The 30* cut would be for the top side of the 45* cut, chamber side, then a 60* cut underneath the 45* cut port side for the ex. And the int I've seen go a 45* seat 60* under cut and a 30* & 15* top cut, I've heard of people doing 5 cuts. Also they do a 30* back on the valves, which I see the int benefiting more from.

[jonas_linder]

my friend does work on this : www.outlawracing.com so I'm not to worried getting the wrong things

I have supplied him with specs and have full confindence in him!