228mm clutch does the flywheel go in type1?

[pantswagen]

is the 2.2 porsche friction plate 228mm
with bug splines?
if not what is?

[dstar]

Um, you are not very clear in what you are asking.
Explain what you want to do, that may be a better approach....

Welcome to the STF!


Don

[70dragbug]

If you mean putting a motor with a 228mm flywheel & clutch such as a bus engine to a bug tranny,then yes the splines will lign up no problem.However, you´ll have to maschine/grind the bellhousing to make it fit.

[pantswagen]

the 228 friction disc has type 1 splines?

[Piledriver]

The 228 bus/Vanagon disc splines and flywheel/ring gear are compatible.

I would not even attempt this on an early tranny BTW, I did it on a `71 SB unit. The early ones have even less meat in the bellhousing.

You have to:

1)Clearance the HELL out of the bell housing to clear the pressure plate. I used a 2" hole saw in a drill with the drill bit recessed.
2) you need a self supporting starter, late bus or 914.
3) a 1/2" spacer for said starter to let everything line up.

I did it. It works. It was NOT my call, my sons wife was driving the car at that point, and DEMANDED a quiet transmission.. and we only had the new 228 setup for the 091... and no $$....sooooo...

(Thankfully she now has a new Jetta VR6, and the bug is being returned to it's intended mission, soon with the 091 resinstalled, and a new paint job, and maybe a chopped top)

The T1 bellhousing gets VERY thin in places, even if you are careful. I would not use it off road, or for REAL drag racing due to that.

I personally would NOT do it again.

Run a 210/215 flywheel if possible. It just works, and only needs a input shaft bearing installed.

If you are REALLY making enough power to _need_ a 228, a T1 tranny might not be the best choice.

A 228 works fine in a 901, or a late 091 bus transmission, and they
are far more likely to be able to handle the power, except for 1st on the 901...

Just for the record, a 091 on solid mounts is NOISY, like can't hear the stereo when cranked noisy.

For drag racing it rocks though...

[Wally]

is the 2.2 porsche friction plate 228mm
with bug splines?
if not what is?

I believe the Porsche diameter is actually 225mm.

Walter

[pantswagen]

even with clearancing once it was all together - would the clutch not slip?
i mean if the clutch assemly is deeper and once the engine was bolted in
would the pressure plate fingers already be under load?
i'm thinking of running up a ring of square alloy bar to the circumference of the bell housing - would it work as a spacer or does the engines weight need to sit in the bell housing groove, rather than on the 4 bolts?
what should i start with - 5mm?
the above problem about friction disc splines arose as i bought a 411 -used clutch disc at a swap meet and tried it on a pre 59 split cased tranny and it didn't fit
i should just get a 210 flywheel and clutch then?
i imagine a 210 pressure plate and disc simply doesn't fit the 228 flywheel
as its concentric circle being larger makes it utilise mounting holes farther apart?

[Piledriver]

A 210 pressure plate fits a 210 flywheel.
A 215 ... PP & flywheel match.
228.. ditto.

A 200/210 or 215 disc work fine on a 210/215 combo.
(the 215 won't fit the 210 however)
(yes, a HP 200mm bug disk works great in either)

A 228 isn't longer overall, the clutch still works fine, but its the same depth over a LARGER diameter than the rest, and the bell housing is, well, bell shaped, sorta, thus the tons of clearancing.

Go with the 210 or 215 unless you MUST have a forged flywheel due to racing rules (NHRA IIRC, some classes???) or just need a 228 and a huge Kennedy plate for 300+ HP.

[raygreenwood]

A 411 clutch disc is a 210 or a 215. It used both. It is not a 228. it also will fit on nothing but a 411/412 standard transmission. It fits nothing else. It has different splines. BUt the flywheel itself....fits any type 4 application. Ray

[jonas_linder]

I'm going with a -73 irs trans and thinking about the 228mm flywheel because the HD-pp isn't plentyful with the 210/215, here in sweden anyway... Would there be alot of work making it fit or just minor(or major) clear. work ?

[70dragbug]

I have an IRS trans and a type 4 with a 228mm flywheel & 228mm Gene Berg cushion grip clutch.Like Piledriver said there´s a lot of clearancing to do but it´s pretty straight forward.The teeth of the Flywheel hit against the bellhousing,so you have to clear out about 3 to 4 mm in thickness and about 4 cm into the bellhousing length,because the 228mm flywheel toothring sits deeper into the bellhousing.It doesn´t have any effect on the pressure plate fingers.

[Wally]

Jonas,
I remember that Wilke Tuning even advised to do the 228mm set-up in a late trans. The clearencing was done in their machine shop and costed ? 100,-- or so. Reason was that the 228mm clutch set-up was very strong, but only needed very light pedal pressure to operate.

So, better not to do it yourself with a grinder. Also the dust from the grinding is very flammable due to the magnesium content of the trans (ask me how I know ).

Greetings,
Walter

[raygreenwood]

You can get as much grip from a 215 by increasing the clamping pressure, than you can from a 228's extra surface area. Not all of the pressure plates were created equal. The fuel injeted 1.7with 4 speed in the 412 that used 215 had more clamping pressure with the original letter series of PP. That is almost impossible to find now. You can however get a multitude of 215 pp from audis/saabs and watercooled cars that drop right in with some bolt hole relocation. Have the step on the flywheel taken down just a hair more...after some careful measuring. You get more clamping pressure than the 228. Ray

[Wally]

You can get as much grip from a 215 by increasing the clamping pressure, than you can from a 228's extra surface area. Not all of the pressure plates were created equal. The fuel injeted 1.7with 4 speed in the 412 that used 215 had more clamping pressure with the original letter series of PP. That is almost impossible to find now. You can however get a multitude of 215 pp from audis/saabs and watercooled cars that drop right in with some bolt hole relocation. Have the step on the flywheel taken down just a hair more...after some careful measuring. You get more clamping pressure than the 228. Ray

Ray,
The thought behind it was not to get a certain bigger clamping pressure, but to do that with a minimal pedal effort.
In this case, bigger is better.
Walter

[jonas_linder]

thanks ray and wally.

A local guy put a wbx in his buggy with the original fw, pp and clutch... alot of work..

Ray do you have any s/n on working hd pp (saab or rabbit ?)