The lowered front of Ray's 412 (pics!!)

Discuss with fans and owners of the most luxurious aircooled sedan/wagon that VW ever made, the VW 411/412. Official forum of Tom's Type 4 Corner.
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Wally
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The lowered front of Ray's 412 (pics!!)

Post by Wally »

Ray send me these pics of his 412 front end:

I am sure he can better comment on the specifics of what he has done exactly, so I'll let him to it :wink:

Image

Look at the resemblance :D :

Image

Image

Image

They were 5 pics of 2 Mb each, so my mail server was busy for a while and I have downsized them a quite a bit. The above 3 were the best ones and speak for themselves.

Greetings,
Walter
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303

"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

Thanks Wally! One of these days soon...I will get around to sorting my pictures and getting some off-site hosting set-up.
A quick note about the photo......because photos can be decieving...especially with the focal lengths of digital cameras.

On Wally's car....his would be even lower...if it had the wheels mine has on it (please correct me if I'm wrong Wally). You appear to have the stock (and very nice ones)...4.5 x 15 wheels...and what appear to be 185 or 195/70 or 75 -15"'s..correct?
The ones on mine are 205/60-15's...on basic aftermarket 356 style "chromies" of 5.5x15". The 185/75's give you side walls on both sides of the wheel of 138mm (before compression weight on the sidewall on the ground). The 205's give a sidewall of 123mm.
The tires have 34 psi in them. The camera height is set exactly at fenderwell height at teh 12 o'clock position on the wheel. Ray
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Wally
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Post by Wally »

I hope the admins can delete that posting above yours Ray!

Anyways: yes, those are my 'temporarily' stock wheels with 155/15 tires...
T4T: 2,4ltr Type 4 Turbo engine, 10.58 1/4 mi in a streetlegal 1303

"Mine isn't turbo'd to make a slow engine fast, but to make a fast engine insane" - Chip Birks
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

:oops: sorry about the file size. I could have reduced and compressed it....in fact my software asked me if I wanted to....but I just slipped a little mentally. Ray
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MGVWfan
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Post by MGVWfan »

I've never seen those 356 steel wheels myself...something tells me they'd be cheaper and/or easier to lay hands on than the Mahle 914 alloy wheels...and 5.5" wide to boot. They look nice on a T4, make it look kinda like a German cop car.
Lane
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood »

German cop car.... :lol:
They are teh exact same wheels you see in the mags for $45-55 dollars.
They have minor issues.
(1) they are only chrome on the outside rim. Now personally...i would rather have factory painted or powdercoated finish....but if they only come chrome...I wish they were chrome all the way.
(2) Compared to teh factory stock steel, they are rather soft. With a tight suspension, you can ever so perceptably...tell that they flex a bit. This also means that if you let teh car sit still onb them without rotating them for long periods...they will spread. They have a tendency to bend a little easier on crappy roads. But..the style is indeed pretty nice looking. I like the slots.
(3) The chrome that is on them...is hard. Wheel weights on the outside rim has a tendency to slide. I use the adhesive weights with much better luck.

A tip in balancing. Because of the odd offset (compared to todays front drive wheels)...if the weight needed to balance any given wheel at any given point....is .75 oz or higher....then you will need to split the weight between the inside and outside rims of the wheel.
I have found taht having a lot of weight on one rim or teh other..with the offset of these wheels...tends to give an imbalance itself that is hard to track down. Ray
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MGVWfan
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Post by MGVWfan »

They should be splitting any weight over about 3/4 ounce on ANY car, IMHO, especially T4's (and MGB's too, they're quite susceptible to wheel tramp if the weight's not split).

You laugh (and rightly so), but I've seen cars in Germany painted politzei green and with a Hella blue gumball machine on top that make you wonder why...an Opel Rekord, some late 70's Taunus or whatever Ford of Germany called their 4-doors then, numerous Vanagons (Belgian gendarmes used Vanagons, too), a VW Jetta equivalent (don't remember the name on the badge), and once, in a small town in the Pfaltz region, an Opel Kadett (now THAT was humorous!). A T4 would fit right in to that crowd!
Lane
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
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ubercrap
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Post by ubercrap »

Ah, guess what, I've seen the 15x5.5" 4 bolt steel wheels for sale now brand new in the factory silver! I believe they were in the Mid America Motorworks catalog as a new item! No longer will you be forced to go with chrome or used 914 steel wheels of unknown condition if you want factory look 5.5's... Oh, and I believe there are pictures somewhere floating around on the net of a T4 police car.
Longbeach412
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Post by Longbeach412 »

MGVWfan, my experience when living in Germany is that usually the police of any town tend to drive cars produced in their town or state, whenever possible. When I lived in Frankfurt, they drove mainly Opels (Wiesbaden factory). When I went to Munich, they drove mostly BMWs. Hey, where do you stand on your front end rebuild? I am still eagerly awaiting your tips & feedback to start mine.
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MGVWfan
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Post by MGVWfan »

OK, here are my observations on the suspension. The car handles very well. Fantastic handling actually, for a station wagon design from the late 60's. I've got Ray's centerlink, and that part's doing great. Zero slop. My recommendation is, even if you've got a NOS TRW link, modify it or you'll be facing play and shimmy within the year. That nylon packing in there is not up to the task, and should have been bronze or something else from the beginning. Ray gave instructions in another thread, and it appears to be a doable job without machinist tools. The replacement KYB GR2 strut cartridges appear to work OK, decent damping, so I'll see how long they last. I still need to replace the control arm bushings, and given the squeaking from the OE ones, I'll be replacing them in the next few months, too. Ditto the stub strut doughnuts and centering rings. As for the idler arm bushing, don't even try the aftermarket OE style Meyle bushings there. I used one because I needed to get the thing on the road and I couldn't find a solid metal bushing, so I put the OE style bonded rubber one in there. The problem is pin fit. They're sloppy from the beginning, and with a little use get sloppier. Mine has something like 1000 miles on it now, and I've noticed a slight bit of slop in the steering, all from the idler bushing pin to bushing clearance opening up. I've got a spare idler bracket, so I'll be working out a bronze bushing to go in there as the next project on the Nomad. I'm still using the original upper strut mounts, again due to the press of time, but I'm tracking down a set of Super Beetle mounts to modify. That's a bit of a longer-term project.
Lane
73 VW 412 (the Nomad, dropped valve seat land now, argh!)
67 MGB (Abingdon's Finest)
76 Plymouth Duster /6 (runs like a top)
99 New Beetle 2.0 (never gives any trouble)
04 Golf TDI (45 MPG)
09 JSW (love it, love it, love it!)
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ubercrap
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2004 8:00 pm

Post by ubercrap »

My front end rebuild?

Done
1. Poly radius arm bushings made
2. Modified poly Rabbit control arm bushings installed
3. Bronze idler arm bushing installed
4. Front subframe mounting points slotted for caster adjustment
5. Purchased VW Fox strut mounts
6. Purchased VW Quantum/Audi 4000 front strut inserts

Need to do still
1. Finish rebuilding center link rebuild or buy rebuilt/new
2. Get eccentric bolts for control arm mounts and slot/modify control arm mounting points
3. Modify watercooled strut housings (gave me an excuse to buy an angle grinder)
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