but im sure you T4 boys will be able to inform me in no time:what are all available T4 crank strokes and cylider bores, stock and modified (or at least the most popular)?
Also what wall thickness do the cylinders have?
Cheers,
TFTom
T4 Strokes and Bores
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Top Fuel Thomas
- Posts: 10
- Joined: Sun Sep 28, 2003 4:06 am
T4 Strokes and Bores
I should know this but im sure you T4 boys will be able to inform me in no time:
what are all available T4 crank strokes and cylider bores, stock and modified (or at least the most popular)?
Also what wall thickness do the cylinders have?
Cheers,
TFTom
but im sure you T4 boys will be able to inform me in no time:what are all available T4 crank strokes and cylider bores, stock and modified (or at least the most popular)?
Also what wall thickness do the cylinders have?
Cheers,
TFTom
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tuna
- Posts: 2531
- Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2000 12:01 am
Re: T4 Strokes and Bores
You'll find the most common sizes of pistons and strokes here:Top Fuel Thomas wrote:what are all available T4 crank strokes and cylider bores, stock and modified (or at least the most popular)?
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/displace.shtml
Tuna
http://vdubgeek.blogspot.com/
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Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Sort of... It lists all possibilities.
Slightly more practical...
Strokes: 66,71 (stock)
76: can fit in block w/o heavy clearanceing with T1 H-beams.
78: Much clearanceing with same, less so with Chevy journals.
78+:About the max any sane person would use with VW T1 journal, preferred due to strength.
(You are mostly fighting rod/cam lobe interference)
80+ act of god clearancing, chevy journals required, small base circle cam.
Pistons: 96 slip in max practical, 105 machines available, VERY thin and have sealing issues on all but the aluminum/nickasil "Nickies" which usually run 102mm as a max. "std" size machine in 103/104/105, not generally suggested around here if you want a long life motor.
The heads have sealing issues due to non-square stud pattern, if you want to go high boost, 90 mm register (1700, 90mm bore, 90.5 easy fits) is suggested as it keeps the max metal in the heads for stiffness.
Other possible solutions have been suggested, only some have been tried. 911 heads look good...(bobtail)
I dont have any wall thickness measurements.
Slightly more practical...
Strokes: 66,71 (stock)
76: can fit in block w/o heavy clearanceing with T1 H-beams.
78: Much clearanceing with same, less so with Chevy journals.
78+:About the max any sane person would use with VW T1 journal, preferred due to strength.
(You are mostly fighting rod/cam lobe interference)
80+ act of god clearancing, chevy journals required, small base circle cam.
Pistons: 96 slip in max practical, 105 machines available, VERY thin and have sealing issues on all but the aluminum/nickasil "Nickies" which usually run 102mm as a max. "std" size machine in 103/104/105, not generally suggested around here if you want a long life motor.
The heads have sealing issues due to non-square stud pattern, if you want to go high boost, 90 mm register (1700, 90mm bore, 90.5 easy fits) is suggested as it keeps the max metal in the heads for stiffness.
Other possible solutions have been suggested, only some have been tried. 911 heads look good...(bobtail)
I dont have any wall thickness measurements.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
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Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22760
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
No, but tell me where I can get some T4 101.6 jugs and pistons, and I would be delighted to give it a shot...
(cast iron... Nickies are lovely, but not good for an experimental motor)
a 103x66 should be pretty common...
(cast iron... Nickies are lovely, but not good for an experimental motor)
a 103x66 should be pretty common...
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
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Her.S.A
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 12:01 am
Hi
IMPI from South Africa built a 101.6x66 turbo/ injected engine. He used it in a type4 sedan. He limited the power to under 200Hp because he did not know how much the standard trany would take.
He used macined down Deutz truck cylinders and standard Chev V8 pistons. The motor was very drivable.
He stil has the motor. But it needs a rebuild after an oil pipe broke and the bearing got toasted.
Hermann
IMPI from South Africa built a 101.6x66 turbo/ injected engine. He used it in a type4 sedan. He limited the power to under 200Hp because he did not know how much the standard trany would take.
He used macined down Deutz truck cylinders and standard Chev V8 pistons. The motor was very drivable.
He stil has the motor. But it needs a rebuild after an oil pipe broke and the bearing got toasted.
Hermann
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
Hermann thats very interesting. As I recall the 409 Chevy had a 4" bore which would be about 100mm. I wonder which Chevy pistons had the 101.6 bore. Perhaps the same pistonwith a .060 over.
Do you know which rods were used. Its all way out of my scope to do something like this but I am curious when I hear about it.
Probably would have been a lot easier to assemble a 2270 T-4 but nowhere as unique as this one you are telling about. Cheers. Bob Ingman
Do you know which rods were used. Its all way out of my scope to do something like this but I am curious when I hear about it.
Probably would have been a lot easier to assemble a 2270 T-4 but nowhere as unique as this one you are telling about. Cheers. Bob Ingman
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
I just noticed this ad for 101.6s and thought I`d call it to the attention of anyone interested in this item.
Ad does not say if they are t-1 or a T-4 cylinder or what piston set is compatable. T-5 Joe? Jake? Anyone know if they are potential?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=117541
Good luck. Bob Ingman
Ad does not say if they are t-1 or a T-4 cylinder or what piston set is compatable. T-5 Joe? Jake? Anyone know if they are potential?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... ?id=117541
Good luck. Bob Ingman
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Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
101.6==std 4.0 inch bore.
The above jugs definately look interesting, and do have something for fins... Might be thre famous tractor jugs, modified.
I (want to) read the ad to say both T1 and T4 styles available, I would definately look at 101.6 T4 jugs, as the extra width of the sealing surface might be o-ringable.
Wasn't someone on the forums building somnething with like 108mm versions? (not Jake)
The concept of big T4 iron jugs that have an extra 1mm of meat or so in the walls and head sealing surface appeals to me.
Might even make a good start for "something big" in a wasser.
The above jugs definately look interesting, and do have something for fins... Might be thre famous tractor jugs, modified.
I (want to) read the ad to say both T1 and T4 styles available, I would definately look at 101.6 T4 jugs, as the extra width of the sealing surface might be o-ringable.
Wasn't someone on the forums building somnething with like 108mm versions? (not Jake)
The concept of big T4 iron jugs that have an extra 1mm of meat or so in the walls and head sealing surface appeals to me.
Might even make a good start for "something big" in a wasser.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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type3
- Posts: 853
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2002 12:01 am
Re: T4 Strokes and Bores
Top Fuel Thomas wrote: Also what wall thickness do the cylinders have?
Cheers,
TFTom
The Mahle 94's that I bought had a 4.5mm wall thickness IIRC. These have since been machined out to 96's so now have a 3.5mm wall.
cheers,
type3
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Her.S.A
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2001 12:01 am
Hi Bob
Yes 101.6mm = 4"
I have a set of cylinders that is already cut to the correct lenght and the standard 103 sizes to fit in a machined block and heads, they have not been bored out from standard.
The cylinder measurements is:
bore= 100mm
size in head= 115mm
size in casing= 108mm
lenght from casing to head sealing surface= 98mm
The stud holes fits the standard type 4 studs without any mods. I had them already cut for .6mm wire o-ring.
I have a set of 101.6 pistons as well as 104s and 105s.
The cylinders is a very high quality ductile iron with a much closer fin spacing than standard type 4. They are also made for a diesel ,so the cylinder pressures and heat they were designed for is much higer.
Hermann
Yes 101.6mm = 4"
I have a set of cylinders that is already cut to the correct lenght and the standard 103 sizes to fit in a machined block and heads, they have not been bored out from standard.
The cylinder measurements is:
bore= 100mm
size in head= 115mm
size in casing= 108mm
lenght from casing to head sealing surface= 98mm
The stud holes fits the standard type 4 studs without any mods. I had them already cut for .6mm wire o-ring.
I have a set of 101.6 pistons as well as 104s and 105s.
The cylinders is a very high quality ductile iron with a much closer fin spacing than standard type 4. They are also made for a diesel ,so the cylinder pressures and heat they were designed for is much higer.
Hermann
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Bob Ingman
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 12:01 am
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Gary
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 12:01 am
Great idea on the diesel cylinders. I'm wondering about the fit in the heads - the 115mm size-in-head dimension, since the walls are thicker. Also, although the fins look denser, they also look smaller in diameter. Any measurements of head temperatures?
They look higher quality and should hold their shape better than the cast iron 102's. I'd love to see experience with head sealing 30k, 60k, 90k down the road.
They look higher quality and should hold their shape better than the cast iron 102's. I'd love to see experience with head sealing 30k, 60k, 90k down the road.