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is the 2.2 porsche friction plate 228mm
with bug splines?
if not what is?

Um, you are not very clear in what you are asking.
Explain what you want to do, that may be a better approach....

Welcome to the STF!


Don

If you mean putting a motor with a 228mm flywheel & clutch such as a bus engine to a bug tranny,then yes the splines will lign up no problem.However, you´ll have to maschine/grind the bellhousing to make it fit.

the 228 friction disc has type 1 splines?

The 228 bus/Vanagon disc splines and flywheel/ring gear are compatible.

I would not even attempt this on an early tranny BTW, I did it on a `71 SB unit. The early ones have even less meat in the bellhousing.

You have to:

1)Clearance the HELL out of the bell housing to clear the pressure plate. I used a 2" hole saw in a drill with the drill bit recessed.
2) you need a self supporting starter, late bus or 914.
3) a 1/2" spacer for said starter to let everything line up.

I did it. It works. It was NOT my call, my sons wife was driving the car at that point, and DEMANDED a quiet transmission.. and we only had the new 228 setup for the 091... and no $$....sooooo...

(Thankfully she now has a new Jetta VR6, and the bug is being returned to it's intended mission, soon with the 091 resinstalled, and a new paint job, and maybe a chopped top)

The T1 bellhousing gets VERY thin in places, even if you are careful. I would not use it off road, or for REAL drag racing due to that.

I personally would NOT do it again.

Run a 210/215 flywheel if possible. It just works, and only needs a input shaft bearing installed.

If you are REALLY making enough power to _need_ a 228, a T1 tranny might not be the best choice.

A 228 works fine in a 901, or a late 091 bus transmission, and they
are far more likely to be able to handle the power, except for 1st on the 901...

Just for the record, a 091 on solid mounts is NOISY, like can't hear the stereo when cranked noisy.

For drag racing it rocks though...

pantswagen wrote:is the 2.2 porsche friction plate 228mm
with bug splines?
if not what is?

I believe the Porsche diameter is actually 225mm.

Walter

even with clearancing once it was all together - would the clutch not slip?
i mean if the clutch assemly is deeper and once the engine was bolted in
would the pressure plate fingers already be under load?
i'm thinking of running up a ring of square alloy bar to the circumference of the bell housing - would it work as a spacer or does the engines weight need to sit in the bell housing groove, rather than on the 4 bolts?
what should i start with - 5mm?
the above problem about friction disc splines arose as i bought a 411 -used clutch disc at a swap meet and tried it on a pre 59 split cased tranny and it didn't fit
i should just get a 210 flywheel and clutch then?
i imagine a 210 pressure plate and disc simply doesn't fit the 228 flywheel
as its concentric circle being larger makes it utilise mounting holes farther apart?

A 210 pressure plate fits a 210 flywheel.
A 215 ... PP & flywheel match.
228.. ditto.

A 200/210 or 215 disc work fine on a 210/215 combo.
(the 215 won't fit the 210 however)
(yes, a HP 200mm bug disk works great in either)

A 228 isn't longer overall, the clutch still works fine, but its the same depth over a LARGER diameter than the rest, and the bell housing is, well, bell shaped, sorta, thus the tons of clearancing.

Go with the 210 or 215 unless you MUST have a forged flywheel due to racing rules (NHRA IIRC, some classes???) or just need a 228 and a huge Kennedy plate for 300+ HP.

A 411 clutch disc is a 210 or a 215. It used both. It is not a 228. it also will fit on nothing but a 411/412 standard transmission. It fits nothing else. It has different splines. BUt the flywheel itself....fits any type 4 application. Ray

I'm going with a -73 irs trans and thinking about the 228mm flywheel because the HD-pp isn't plentyful with the 210/215, here in sweden anyway... Would there be alot of work making it fit or just minor(or major) clear. work ?

I have an IRS trans and a type 4 with a 228mm flywheel & 228mm Gene Berg cushion grip clutch.Like Piledriver said there´s a lot of clearancing to do but it´s pretty straight forward.The teeth of the Flywheel hit against the bellhousing,so you have to clear out about 3 to 4 mm in thickness and about 4 cm into the bellhousing length,because the 228mm flywheel toothring sits deeper into the bellhousing.It doesn´t have any effect on the pressure plate fingers.

Jonas,
I remember that Wilke Tuning even advised to do the 228mm set-up in a late trans. The clearencing was done in their machine shop and costed ? 100,-- or so. Reason was that the 228mm clutch set-up was very strong, but only needed very light pedal pressure to operate.

So, better not to do it yourself with a grinder. Also the dust from the grinding is very flammable due to the magnesium content of the trans (ask me how I know ).

Greetings,
Walter

You can get as much grip from a 215 by increasing the clamping pressure, than you can from a 228's extra surface area. Not all of the pressure plates were created equal. The fuel injeted 1.7with 4 speed in the 412 that used 215 had more clamping pressure with the original letter series of PP. That is almost impossible to find now. You can however get a multitude of 215 pp from audis/saabs and watercooled cars that drop right in with some bolt hole relocation. Have the step on the flywheel taken down just a hair more...after some careful measuring. You get more clamping pressure than the 228. Ray

raygreenwood wrote:You can get as much grip from a 215 by increasing the clamping pressure, than you can from a 228's extra surface area. Not all of the pressure plates were created equal. The fuel injeted 1.7with 4 speed in the 412 that used 215 had more clamping pressure with the original letter series of PP. That is almost impossible to find now. You can however get a multitude of 215 pp from audis/saabs and watercooled cars that drop right in with some bolt hole relocation. Have the step on the flywheel taken down just a hair more...after some careful measuring. You get more clamping pressure than the 228. Ray

Ray,
The thought behind it was not to get a certain bigger clamping pressure, but to do that with a minimal pedal effort.
In this case, bigger is better.
Walter

thanks ray and wally.

A local guy put a wbx in his buggy with the original fw, pp and clutch... alot of work..

Ray do you have any s/n on working hd pp (saab or rabbit ?)