2,4 T4 201,1Hp wants more!

m flow · Post by **m flow** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:32 pm

My friend drives a buggy with a T4 2,4 mostly at the track.
Power is 201,1Hp / 6013rpm He needs more speed !
Times are 12,36 1/4 mile 7,66 1/8 60 ft. 1,64
The engine is build with these parts :
71mm Bas cw crank 2,0 Bas lightenend rods
103mm Bas cyls. 10,5:1 Webcam 86c
412s heads 48 / 40 valves ported / polished Fat dobb. springs
48Ida on shortenend Cb manifolds 42 venturis
Bas exhaust 1 5/8
Does anyone have suggestions for more rpm / power ?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:34 pm

Add a set of Nickies and stroke it!

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:36 pm

Is this the orange Elnef buggy with checkerboard graphics and Porsche alloys?

Tuna

m flow · Post by **m flow** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:45 pm

Yes, its the Elneff buggy!
Now with centerline wheels and MH street tires back .

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:02 pm

Its needs some MassIVe modifications! Hell I might even sponsor that car!

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:11 pm

This engine is the one that's on the homepage of my site, Type 4: Secrets Revealed. It's one impressively quick street engine.

What's the compression ratio of this engine? What type of fuel is available to you guys there in DK? If the fuel is of high quality and octane, and the compression ratio isn't already sky high, bumping the compression would definitely help.

I agree with Jake about the Nickies and the stroker crank. There's no substitute for displacement. Install a 78mm stroker with 103mm Nickies, bump the CR to maybe 10:1 and hold on.

Make sure that the car can handle this kind of power though. I'd hate to hear about it losing traction on the street or on the track and destroying one cool buggy.

Tuna

Wesayso · Post by **Wesayso** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:01 am

Impressive to see those numbers at such a relative low RPM

Is this due to the powerband from a web 86c?

Bobby74 · Post by **Bobby74** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 1:20 am

There is a replacement for Displacement..... Proper tunning.

Get rid of the IDA's.... Use REAL EFI..... (Not CB performance or anything with IDA look-alike throttle bodys)
Get rid of a the Dist. and run DIS (crank fire).

Lighten valve train, run single springs with smaller valves and Al pushrods, possible light lifters.

Seriously concider a Chev 2" journal or Type 1 55mm journal. Run H-beam rods. Use forged pistons (stronger and lighter than cast). Faster assembly acceleration due to reduced mass.

With a setup like this you can force as much fuel in as your engine can handle, be able to burn it, and gain extra power. I'm not talking turbo or superchargers... I mean the fuel available will be able to burn and make more power. I'm willing to bet, with a stock based ignition and running IDA's you're burning 3/4 of the fuel that is going through your engine and winding up in your exhaust.

With a bore size as large as yours, flame propigation and travel is going to be much slower than a smaller bore engine. You need to get it to travel faster and do more than it is currently.

The only way to overcome limits above what I told you to change is by using a different piston shape, smaller diameter, and careful port work. After that you would most likly go to Nitrous or forced induction of some type.

Without drastically changing the mechanical's of your engine, I would start with EFI and Ignition. Then worry about a lighter valve train and valves, rotating assembly,etc.

There is more power to be had with the engine your're currently running.
-Bobby

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 7:36 am

Bobby74 wrote:There is a replacement for Displacement..... ---------Bobby

NITROUS!

What are ALL the modifications that we do to improve the performance of
an internal combustion engine designed to do?

Introduce larger amounts of fuel/air mixture!

Nitrous does it quickly, cheaply and without a HUGE expenditure of cash.

What is wrong with nitrous? Well, NOTHING!

IF you prepare your engine to withstand 200HP, it doesn't matter to the
engine if it gets it from Nitrous or $4000 worth of hand made specialty parts and tuning.

Nitrous gets a bad rap from those that do NOT have their engine properly
prepared for the amount of HP they are trying to introduce and from the
old school folks that think the the only way to make powere is the *old*
way.

Nuff sed.

Flame on, but facts are facts!!

Don

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:44 am

Yeah- That'd be fun!

[email protected] · Post by **[email protected]** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:55 am

So Bobby,

When you are talking about getting rid of the IDA type throttle bodys, are you suggesting putting a plenum/runner system in with say a throttle body from something like a GM3800 on the plenum? I am working on something like this for an Electromotive Tec2 on my 2.3L with a FAT shroud. Any suggestions you guys have would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Randy

Elnef · Post by **Elnef** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:10 pm

First thanks for helping me

I have tried nitros for about 3 years ago whit bad results the head gasket blow out more than once then I give up rebuild the engine and sold the system
CR is now 10,5:1 and the engine running on 98 oktan yes we have good gasolin in Denmark
The ignition is a Bosh elektronik system and have 35 degrees total advance
The pistons is allready forged not cast but maybe heavy because of the size 103mm
I will keep the IDAs because I like the look and sound
Have any of you the same low rpm with the web cam 86c

Here is a link to my profil from Danish street race cup with picture from the starting line

http://www.streetlegal.dk/cupdeltagerin ... 6508268844}

sponsors is welcome

m flow · Post by **m flow** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 12:41 pm

As Elnef wrote , he`s more into making more out of the engine he
has, or making it bigger , please Jake Raby share some of your thoughts
or ideas about this engine ! We`ve talked about port size , right now around 37mm for the intake , is it too small ? Would a different cam , more duration - profile ,make a
difference in the top rpm or is it related to the heavy parts in the engine ?
M Flow.

Hot Wheels · Post by **Hot Wheels** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:46 am

Gives me hope for making my goal of 200hp! Im running 102 nickies now and 66 stroke 11 to one compression and swapped out the 86b cam for one of jake f prod specials. I expect the peak to come a little higher in the rpm band than where you are but testing will tell for sure. Im doing some 1/8 mile and 100 yard sand drags so i want quick revs and 8k rpm top. Lightened the valvtrain, scat counterweighted crank, it really turnd before the latest mods, cant wait to try it again. also using the fat shroud and dry sump kit with the cb fuel injection. (came with the motor).

Goal is to keep it streetable for 30 mile fun runs etc...

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:23 am

First off, get rid of any head gaskets- thats the source of an issue..

Elnef, we should chat via email, or over on my forum thats where we try to keep the "Aircooled Technology specific" posts at to keep this one more general and unclogged with"Jakeness"

I can get you more power, thats not an issue.