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I'm just curious on this one, but I never see anything about Honda engines on this forum. I've read people saying the Wankel has a good aftermarket, well Honda is the King of the aftermarket right now. Anyone do a transplant with one of those??

Also, I read on a foriegn site about using a Diahatsu motor. I used to own a Charade (3cyl) and it would go pretty good. Especially after I removed the cat and P&P'ed the heads. Anybody done that one?

Better yet, what are the more unusual engines you guys are running (besides the standard rotary, WC vw, etc..)

honda turns the wrong direction, and so do corvairs, other than those two its all game. Some of ther northern engineering colleges out here have clean (emissions and noise) snowmobile competitions. My shcool uses a factory turbocharged diahatsu 3cyl i think its under 1L but its light and makes quite a bit of power. http://www.news.kettering.edu/showpage.cfm?id=396

I believe honda engines spin the wrong way to use hence them not being used. Ive seen a aircooled v8 converted, several watercooled v6 engines.

Most Honda 4's rotate the wrong way, and don't have much low end torque. The Honda V6's are nice but pricey and difficult to find spares compared to a lot of motors. I would not say Honda is king of aftermarket.

The daihatsu motor's make so little power I don't think anyone would bother with a conversion.

I think my motor is one of the more original conversions kicking around.
There's another EFI V6 Baja in the US, a 3.1 GM V6. And there have been a few EFI V6 beetle conversions in the pipeline for a while now.

In the process of a GM Ecotec conversion in my bus. The sand guys are already using them so the adaptation is done... it's just a matter of packaging it to fit in the different VW's. Size is not a big concern in a bus engine bay but very few others have the room. A baja would work easy but someone tryiny to stay completely stock looking...

http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL267/182 ... 139062.jpg

well Honda is the King of the aftermarket right now.

I would say that based on popularity at the moment. The small block chevy is the all time king. But ricers definitely have a hell of a market going.

I didn't even think of the motor spinning the wrong way. Why do they do that? Is there any advantage? Or just to be different.

diahatsu 3cyl i think its under 1L but its light and makes quite a bit of power

The one I had would get up and go. I really enjoyed driving it. It was the car that turned me on to compacts in general. I'm sure that engine would work quite well in a bug, however, I think it maxes out around 100-120 hp without alot of work. Don't quote me on those numbers. I think I got that from an Aussie web site where they build alot of the Dia. 3 cyl's for rally racing.

dna1997 wrote:

well Honda is the King of the aftermarket right now.

I would say that based on popularity at the moment. The small block chevy is the all time king. But ricers definitely have a hell of a market going.

I don't know about the US, but in australia Honda isn't that big in the import scene. Well they are, but not as big as say Nissan. The RB26DETT skylines are argueably the king of import performance and are very big in the market. The same goes for the more affordable SR20DET engine and equipped cars like the Silvia's.

diahatsu 3cyl i think its under 1L but its light and makes quite a bit of power

...I think it maxes out around 100-120 hp without alot of work...

If you wanted to make 100-120hp made by revs with little torque and not much potential for much more HP, you might as well stick with the VW motor. 200HP with a fat torque band is where the fun starts, from there it all depends on how much money you want to spend on your tranny and CV's.

hey i have a question. why couldnt you just flip the ring and pinion to make up for the honda engine going the wrong way? is their something else that im not thinking about or that i dont know that wouldnt let this work?

you can flip the ring and pinion, but from what I've heard it shortens the gearboxes life by doing that. I have no personal experience with it though.

I personally don't think inline 4 motors make good fits in VW's

you can flip the ring and pinion but you don't want to do that. even if you flip the ring and pinion to get the wheels to turn the right way, the tranny is still turning backwards. I have heard that your trans will last no more than 3000 miles.

You could always get a late model k-series honda engine that turns in the correct direction. I would personally reccommend throwing an SR20 (nissan) in there though. It will make more power than a honda motor and there is a pretty good aftermarket for that engine. It is all aluminum (lightweight) , turns the right direction, and will support 400hp on stock internals. It is also much stonger than a honda motor, and it requires less maintanance (chain driven cam, never needs replacement). You can get them for less than $500 ($1500 for the DET). If you like the VTEC stuff, nissan made it first and it is the SR20VE. Will make more power than say a b18c (Integra type-r) (as well as cost less than that engine) and will have a much more linear powerband as opposed to the honda's giant step-up in power when the VTEC kicks in. Throw in a set of SR16VE cams and you will have close to 200 wheel hp. not bad for NA.

Or you can always go rotary......

http://frost.bbboy.net/vwengineconversions

Baja Wes:

Sorry, I forgot some of you guys are not in the U.S. Honda is definitely the it marque. I know tons of guys that would love to get their hands on the Nissan parts you guys can get.

And it probably doesn't make much sense to put a 120hp Diahatsu engine in a Vw. I'm sure that one could probably get more than 120, but I'm not sure about 200. If that's the goal, I'd probably start with an engine that is more tried and true. I thought small car (diahatsu), small car (VW), the engine would be a good swap. And 120 hp would double the output of my 57hp 1600. And there would be no valves to set. And you could have A/C. And a real heater. Oh, and gas mileage.(I've read there are mileage issues with the rotary??)

As for the Honda's:

I would not flip the ring and pinion. I agree that it would definitely shorten the life of the tranny. Stick to how the engineers designed it. (ha!)

Other engines:

How about the small Chevy engine (the one used in the Geo's) or even the 2.0 from a Cavalier.

The 1.6/1.8 Ford turbo that was in the Escort EXP (mid 80's)

Or a small diesel?

Just thinking small, with potential.

Flipping the ring and pinion hurts NOTHING as long as you set the backlash properly. Thats what VW did at the factory so they could put reduction boxes on the old busses. It doesn't matter which way the engines turns, just set the R&P up for what ya got.

dbcflash wrote:Flipping the ring and pinion hurts NOTHING as long as you set the backlash properly. Thats what VW did at the factory so they could put reduction boxes on the old busses. It doesn't matter which way the engines turns, just set the R&P up for what ya got.

Flipping the ring and pinion indeed does not hurt anything. Spinning the tranny the wrong way will kill everything in short order. If you have ever opened a tranny up, you will notice that all the gears are helical cut. What this does it make it smooth and quiet. The downside of this is that there is a lot of thrust placed on the input and output shaft. VW made the transmission to handle this thrust but only in one direction (I belive the input shaft thrusts forward, while the output shaft tries to go backward). If you tie an engine to a vw tranny that spins counterclockwise (IE Honda, corvair) the input and output shafts will be thrust into the other direction. The mechanisms that control the thrust on input/output shafts only work in one direction. It will start to wear the bearings and the shafts will become misaligned, then all the gears and syncros will eat themselves apart. Basically what I am saying is that your tranny WILL wear out VERY fast if you turn the transmission the wrong way.

NOT RECOMMENDED, but possible.

[quote="Anonymous'] If you tie an engine to a vw tranny that spins counterclockwise (IE Honda, corvair) the input and output shafts will be thrust into the other direction...
NOT RECOMMENDED, but possible.[/quote]

Exactly.
The life expectancy of a trans turned backwards by a Corvair engine versus one going the right way with a similar engine that used a reverse-rotation kit has been estimated at about 30% less. That's at the ~140HP level in a lightweight car like a dunebuggy, I'd expect the reduction to be even more dramatic with a more powerful engine and/or heavier vehicle.

talkking to a friend last year about how he does type-R conversons for his customers and he said that it worked ok, he was however intrested in that idea of having the gears straight cut which granted would be noisey but only the 1-2-3 gears would be straight, the 4th gear of a street driven tranny would remain helicle.

he does flip the R&P but he was thinking about getting one made so that it was the exact opposit of stock so it could use a vair ot honda engine


personaly, i wouldnt mind having the straight cut gears in an daily driver that might be making about 250-300hp because the gears would wine and annoy others but they are much stonger than helicle gears of equal width