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Hey, I seen these strut cart. on ebay and it has a 412 in the part number.
Will they work on the 412? (New-in-the-box, pair of Sachs(Fichtel & Sachs) struts, with hardware and instructions in both English and German. Made in West Germany. Numbers an struts - EM 972 002 08 1500 100 132.. Numbers on boxes -133 412 503 VW Pkw VA Typ 1/Beetle 1302,5/LS 1303 9.72. I was told these apply to 71-73 Super Beetle. ) Also, do you know the part number or match for the darn strut dust boot? I cant find anything at the part places with out a car make or part #. Looking at the boxes they have in stock doesnt help! Is there a book to look up this stuff? Also can't find those centering washer or spacer that goes in the strut tube to center the cart. Anyone know a source or part number? All I get is the standard question"What is it for" Thank again! Bill

Those are beetle cartridges. They will not fit. Frustratingly enough, the "412" in the # you are refering to is simply the part of the code that identifies the sub-assembly...being the strut. It will have the same code on many VW cars with struts. Just like the part # of ...say a distributor...like: 022-905-205E...The 905 is the part that lables it as a fuel injection part.

The stock boots for the struts have never been available as a replacement part. The dealer never stocked them. Struts at the dealer were replaced as entire assemblies in this country, so they came with new boots. You can use boots from anything.

If you are using original struts are cartriges, push the spacer out of the old bumps top. That will have to stay on the rod to keep correct spacing, but after that, an after market bump stop and dust boot from a rabbit golf or jetta willwork fine. Anythin that has the same diameter strut rod is a good boot candidate. Most foreign and american cars use the same diameter strut rod .

Centering rings come with new strut cartridges. If you find cartridges without them....don't buy them until they find you some. The centering rings are generally set up for each make of cartridge so they can be a little differnt. But, generally superbeetle centering rings should fit. Ray

Hey Ray, what do you think about the replacement Koni strut cart. they have at www.classicgarage.com? I know you said some are too stiff and will trash the front end. I'm just wondering since I have those nos gabriels and you said they probably will just blow out since they are old.
Thanks Bill

p.s. Hey Ray I must be so dense!! I just figured out that the old strut dust boot(4") mount on the bottom of the stop damper comes off and you can use a golf strut dust boot with it then!! Arrrrggg! LOL!!! Thanks again for all the help! Doh! Bill

I had been hearing for a while about people finding Koni shocks for their 411/412. I'm surprised and glad. They are the best. Two thinks to find out just to be sure. (1) do they truley fit a 411/412? Make sure. The 411/412 struts are very different than most other struts from any vehicle made...just because of the unusual length and step cut into the rod. (2) Make sure that the rebound and compression are adjustable. Thats important. If these are made "exactly" to stock VW strut valving, then they have the same defect....inadequate rebound damping. But Konis are adjustable. If tuning the compression up...also tunes the rebound up, then you are good to go.

The only thing I can see wrong about them being totally dead stock in dimensions, is that they may maintain the stock nose- high attitude. The only way to get rid of that is by using a rod that is shorter. Having adjustable konis would be superb. I will check into them myself. I would like some too.

Now. That being said. One thing that could make then give you the slightly lowered ride height you need...would be to use the 411 "long step" cartridge and take 3/4 of an inch off of the metal bushing that goes through the bump stop before installing it on the strut. That would allow more rod to stick up through the top of the strut bushing, effectively lowering the front end to level just like I have done with the KYB cartridge. BUT...you must cut-off about 1/2" of that extra rod...or it will put dents in your hood. You may also have to add about 1/2" more thread to the end of the rod....which is a little difficult...because its induction hardened after threading at the factory. Getting a very good industrial die will thread both of them...but destroy the die in the process. Its about $50 for one. Problem is, if you do have to trim the top of the rod...that may destroy te adjusting mechanism of the strut. Some things I will look into. Thanks! Ray

anyone progress on this? Seems easier to me that the thing with the quantum struts............If some one gives me the part numbers, i will be the guinea pic and can post pics and instructions.......

Yes, its easier I agree. But, there are a couple of flaws in the original struts. The handling due to he nose high front settings, absolutely sucks...even with the best strut cartridges. I mean it really sucks...and is dangerous above 50 mph in a cross wind. The adjustable mecanism of the Koni will make it get rid of the rebound damping problem. I lookedat the adjusting diagrams. These are an 86 series strut cartridge. That means that the adjustment is done by rotating the strut body with the internal cam button engaged. It means that if you had to trim the bump stop bushing and then trim about 1/2" off of the top of the strut rod, it should be no problem. My other question is , just how much stiffer valving can be obtained by the adjustments on the Koni's? The quantum strut cartidge gives absolutely superb handling, but is very much different than stock.
Though the quantum/4000 mods seem like a pain, they are quite cheap. I would hate to pay $202 each for strut cartridges (though they would last forever), that were not capable of giving me the superb handling that these cars really need. Bear in mind that the KYB's are low pressure gas...and the Koni's are oil. That in itself is not a bad thing...but it is quite different. The KYB's in my experience, will have to be replaced about every 3-4 years.

The life span of Konis are superb..but not forever. I am surpriesed they even have a cartridge for the 412...because there is almost no market. Which also brings me to wether they really do fit the 411/412....because the cartridge in the diagram/illustration is not the correct one for either.
Over the years, almost every major shock manufacturer that I have spoken to has finally offered me up something they say should fit. Most are not even close. The rest are always beetle cartridges...which will not work. Try them and see, but be ready to trim the steel collar that goes through the stock bump stop to get the front end level...and then trim about 1/2" to 5/8" of the top of the rod. Thee should be plenty of thread left underneath.

The KYB's I am using have about 25-30% stiffer than stock valving. But also since they are gas, they total feel is much different. The gas is already pressurized so it does not have to move much before it starts building pressure to arrest movement. It really nice. It may be worth it to do the mods anyway for quantum struts...and then use Koni's. I wonder ow much longer they will make the 411/412 konis also? Ray

Oddly enough, that link also has KYB NOS front strut cartridges available for 411/412...$40!. Those who are just looking for good stockish handling, I would snap up either some Konis or KYB and do the 3/4" lowering mod and put on golf boots. That mod alone will greatly increase handling because it gives a lower nose and about 2-3* more static castor. Ray

Hey Ray, I went and tried to order the Koni's from Them. I'm just so over trying to get the NOS Gabriels I got to work without the centering rings and worrying about the seals being bad! Thanks for all the info and Help!! Bill

Let me know how it goes. Just for giggles and grins, drop by a shop that sells KYB and grab a cartridge for a quantum and see how it feels compared to the Konis. Ray

Ray, I am about to order a pair of these Koni's as well. I have a 1972 year 411. I am going to upgrade to the long (blue) springs from a 412 (introduced for the 73 model year in August 72), so, I assume I need to order the 412 73/74 shocks (KO-86-1832) and not the 411 69/73 shocks (KO-86-1643). Do you agree ?
I also assume that the change in January 74 to the asymmetrical (super beetle) strut mount did not change the strut inserts? Meaning I can change from the symmetrical strut mounts to the asymmetrical ones anytime without changeing the strut inserts?
Thanks for your advise,
Jan Peter

The blue springs were great. I usethem. Noticably better than the yellow series. The assymmetrical strut mountcan be used on either strut series as the bushing and bump stop on gthe 411 are what does the leveling to the top plate. Just be sure and measure your spring spacing between top and bottom spring perches on the old strut set-up to make sure everything is going in the same. You will have to drill some holes and possibly dod some light grinding to install the assymetrical mounts....but its easy. You will have to use slightly different shims and washers when installing the new mounts. Just let me know and I will measure mine.

Both cartridges can be used, but there is agood bit of difference in the spacers. All else is the same. You cannot use the early 411 bump stop and spacer with the late 412. Ray

Hey Guys, just got a note from Stuart at classicgarage.com and it looks like I might have gotten the last pair of Konis and he is trying to get the gland nuts for them or the info(specs) from Holland I believe to match them. He does have the others KYB and Boge strut. I let him know that I thought someone else wanted the Konis for the 412. Are the gland nuts the thing I heard called the centering ring? Thx Bill

P.s. he was also checking the petronix ing. sys. for my d-jet; what do you think about them? I got it for my Mom's beetle and it helped the starting and have been very reliable!

I use the pertronix. It works great. Its a major improvement. In fact , a much hotter coil is ahuge improvement. The fuel injected engines were way underignited. So..are the koni's just new old stock...or are they stillin production? The old Bogi's will be a problem. They are high quality build, but terrible valving on the rebound. They also tend to get flat seals when they lay on the shelf too long. Most oil shocks do. I bought a set of Boge's a few years back. I got 10k out of them. Ray

Hey Bill, think I filled-out the web order form of classicgarage.com after you. They don't have the Koni's anymore, unfortunately. I don't expect they will ever be able to get them from Koni either. They still do stock the KYB, so, I will probably give these guys a try. By the way, there is a pair of Bilstein rear shocks for the 411/412 on ebaY currently, listed as B46-630HA / 411.513.031B. Will these be for the sedan or the uprated Variant (squareback) ones?
I also use the pertronix, both om my D-jet 411 and on my L-jet Superbeetle. Works excellent. For the 411 I am planning to upgrade to a MSD ignition system in the near future.
Ray, are you still working on assembling kits for the spacer ring and damping rings (donuts) for the radius arms and the parts to rebuild the center link? I am still highly interested! Do you happen to know the part number for the solid bronze idler arm bushing?
If I change my strut mounts from symmetrical to asymmetrical, I can buy 2 different Superbeetle strutmounts: the model up to Jul 73 and the model starting Aug 73 (74 -79 model years). Do you know which one would be better? (they both have asymmetrical bolt pattern).
Thanks, Jan Peter

I will have time probably close toend ofFeb to produce control arm bushings and centering rings. Please keep reminding me. I need some too. The late strut mounts are the correct one. The arlier ones were bonded. If you can get new ones...great, but bonded strut bushings that have sat on the shelf will have close to thesame probs as anything else.

The KYB strut cartridges were discontinued almost a decade ago. Thos are NOS and not-available. Ray