Distributor question

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:04 pm

Hey, got the to engine start but when I pulled the dist. cap off to readjust
the points the top of the cap was rubbing and had pushed the carbon tip up and the tip cone was flattened! When you pull on the rotor the shaft it pulls up and can turn side to side more then when you push it down. It seems like its moving where the shaft splits where the weights are. I pulled the distributor up and tried to check if it was in right. I pushed the shaft down and put another cap and rotor in and now it wont start, LOL. I set the timing with a light bulb(like before) by turning the dist. Can I replace the distributor with any other? I have a 022 905 205P, 0231 172 019. Is there parts for this thing?? This car has been a epic!!! My old 412 always ran only time it didnt was when the point arm rest broke off!!
Thanks Bill p.s. Im getting worn out on this project!! Ahhhhh!
I cant believe it ran when the distributor rotor was rubbing so bad!

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:29 pm

Not sure what was damaged from your post. It sounds like the rotor was simply not pushed down all the way. Try a new rotor first. If there is a whole lot of up and down play in the distributor...make sure it is all the way seated. Loosen the clamp...push it down...lock the clamp...check again. Also...is the spring installed under the distributor drive? Next...check that there are still at least 1-2 shims betwen the drive dog and the body. Next...make sure the "c: clip is still installed under the felt wick in the top of the shaft. There are a few shims that are internal under the fuel injection cam...but if the distributor has upwards to .030" axxial play...its relatively normal. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:30 pm

Hey Ray, pulled the distributor and the play isnt with the bottom shaft.
the top shaft wants to pull up and has play and sounds like the springs.
when you push it down it feels solid. Maybe its something else. Its so weird it was running with the dist rotor and cap jammed together at the top. So I put a new cap and rotor in and it trashed the cap! Now I put a old rotor and cap(basically new) in and it doesnt start. When it was running the dwell was high around 56 so I opened it to regap the the points and then found the cap problem so I regapped the points a little bigger and put another cap and rotor and nothing. Just turn over and occassional little jump.
Oh yeah forgot to say that the little copper bare wire lead from the bottom plate to the point plate broke loose so I just put it under the corner of the points. I couldnt solder it back! I tried to pull the cold start plug off and on to see if that was it. I should just replace those things! Thanks Bill

p.s. tested the fi points and they work.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:13 pm

Ah! Your problems are common..but pretty simple to fix. The copper wire braid between the breaker plates must have a rock solid connection. It was spot welded on. The breaker plate is the same as most other VW with vacume adavance distributors...so swap one out. That fixes that. The symptoms of that wire are bucking during advance..breathing flame out the exhaust, misfiring, stalling, not starting.

Now....pull the felt wick out of the top of the shaft end...under the rotor. Get a flashlight. You should see a very fine wire "C" clip. If it has not been oil regularly...it will deteriorate..and crack away....letting the top adavnce unit part of the shaft assembly to float. The clip is the same on all 1970's acvw distributors....so get one from a junkyard.

How do you get the clip out? Mount the body...lightly....in a vise. Remove the guts (breaker plate, springs etc.). Take a 1/8 or 3/16" punch...and while pullling up on the top shaft...whack the center of the shaft that the "C" clip is around. The shaft will pop off the clip.

Installation seems tricky...but is simple. After your distributor is basically reassembled...shafts only...no guts yet....get your 1/4" socket set. Find a small deep well socket that fits down in the inside of the shaft top. Make sure the end is close to the size of the "C" clip. Put a little grease on the socket...squeezethe clip a little to make sure it is tight....stick it to the end of the socket...and whack it home.

While you have the dizzy apart, check the two shims for wear under the fuel injection cam, check the bushing for wear, clean everything...and clean the rust out from undre the weights. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:03 am

Hey Ray got it all apart and when I looked in the top shaft hole where the c clip is, it was just floating there. So I cleaned up the parts and got it back together with the c clip back in place. Now I need to fix that copper wire on the breaker plate. Can I use my 110volt mig to fix it or should I just find another plate from a vacuum adv dist.? Thanks again!! Bill
p.s. what type of grease should be used? I just used multi.

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:36 am

You can try the mig...but don't hold your breath. The problem is, that if the plate is distorted in any way...it leaves a bump, or a high point, on the bottom side, that needs to be ground flat, or else it causes the plate to hang up or rock. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:07 pm

Hey Ray, LOL, the mig didnt work! Just welded a spot on the top plate and burnt up some of the copper wire! Hey I was talking with my parts guy and he was saying you could use a 009 distributor? Do you need the vacuum advance? Does the 009 have the trigger points for the injectors?
Can you use any other distributor? Does the 009 have the same point plate? A new one is as much as a new 009 dist!! Thanks for all the info and help! Wahoo Bill

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sat Oct 04, 2003 9:50 pm

No you cannot use a 009. Even if you could...its a POS for type 4's in general. But...you can take the breaker plate assembly from almost any vacume advance distributor and it drops right in. Type 3 breaker plates are a dead match. So are any of the vacume advance bug breaker plates. Mig welding should be do-able...the problem is keeping everything cool as you have found. This should be a $5 fix if the breaker plate is all thats wrong. You can pull them from bosch didtributors of almoat any kind. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:21 pm

Hey Ray, got a vw#022 905 205S,0231 170 093 dist. but it doesnt have a match to the big vacuum can with two lines and point plate movement of the stock 022 905 205P,0231 172 019 dist. I just sprayed the inside of my can with some formagasket and got a wire soldiered on that shows conductivity between the plates. The other dist is smaller and doesnt have the inj points. it does have another hole there for it with a cap. The weights look totally different inside ,is that the main adv. of the dist. How much does the point plate move? Maybe I'll put the old one in now and see if I get something! LOl Bill

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:50 pm

Thats probably a bus L-jet or carbed dizzy. If you have D-jet injection...it must have the triggers. Also...the forma-gasket won't work. There are quite a few advance units that are close enough to work. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:11 am

raygreenwood wrote:Thats probably a bus L-jet or carbed dizzy. If you have D-jet injection...it must have the triggers. Also...the forma-gasket won't work. There are quite a few advance units that are close enough to work. Ray

I think I have the L jet, I have the trigger points. The can is a big unit that looks more like a standard american can with a pull on both sides.
The whole dist looks bigger. I doubt the spray a gasket will hold but it made it move the point plate with the vac pump. LOL! Need to find a better match later. thx bill

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 8:07 am

If you have the trigger points...you have D-jet. The D-jet is a 205 series distributor. It is a little longer in height...and slightly squareer edged right? the other distributor without points is slightly shorter and with rounder lower edges right? Thats a standard 205 series for either L-jet...which requires no triggers...or for a carbed bus. I'll drop in some part #'s of cannisters later that may work well...andare really common. They may need slight mods. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 12:41 am

Hey what is the d jet compared to the waterboxer djet? Is it just a different series or year. I have trigger points. I think that dist. was out of a wagen 1.8lfi. The intake has a dash pot on the mass air flow. I dont have that on the 1.7l It has the same cold air start valve on the mix box abd mass air. It has the aux air reg. the temp sense, under the mix box.
Pressure reg. So is it just a different computer box/prog. Looks like they have a lot of the same componants, iguess......Bill. It seems like I sould look for a digijet dist from a bus older years or find a vac can match and get a point plate. thx bill

raygreenwood · Post by **raygreenwood** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:24 am

You may be mixing systems a little . Only the D-jet had triggers under the distributor that removed on a little plate. The D-jet also has no mass air flow unit. It uses a manifold pressure sensor. It does use pretty much th same intake center plenum and auxiliary air regulator as L-jet. D-jet has differnt wwiring, different ECU, different injectors. It never came on teh water boxers. I believe the water boxers used digifant 1 or 2. Thats not a bad system either. Its more akin to an electronic CIS. In digifant...all of the electronic injectors fire at once...compared to D-jet which fires in pairs. Ray

vwbill · Post by **vwbill** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 4:36 pm

raygreenwood wrote:You may be mixing systems a little . Only the D-jet had triggers under the distributor that removed on a little plate. The D-jet also has no mass air flow unit. It uses a manifold pressure sensor. It does use pretty much th same intake center plenum and auxiliary air regulator as L-jet. D-jet has differnt wwiring, different ECU, different injectors. It never came on teh water boxers. I believe the water boxers used digifant 1 or 2. Thats not a bad system either. Its more akin to an electronic CIS. In digifant...all of the electronic injectors fire at once...compared to D-jet which fires in pairs. Ray

I must have thought it was named the same on the my waterboxer digijet/fant.! LOL! I was lookin at my plenum and it has a sensor on the left frt corner. The other one only has the cold start valve. but it had a dash pot mounted to it. The injecters on the other tubes had a pointy tip and on the inj. my 1.7 has a blunt tip end. I guess I was talking about the throttle bodys are the same look(Not mass air)lol. The air intake plenums look mostly the same(one is thinner and the other looks bigger chubbier) just that sensor on mine dif.. Is that the manifold pressure sensor? Would the 1800 chubby mix box be better then the 1700 rectangle?
Its funny how they use two sets of points to fire the injectors in pairs but the water boxer fires all at once, must be easier. So why are the tips different on the injectors? Does that mean the tubes have different bores? I think its funny how the motor's setup varied so much by model in the 411/412 series! I do remember the 1800 I had before was different dist. wise. It looked like the other one without the bottom points. 205S. Is this because the engines had different performance setup for the models? I'm just trying to use the same stuff that came off the 1.7 mine came with but it seems to be a little more complicated then the 1800 I had before to get running. Thx again for the info! Bill

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