Would their be a market

swoodard23 · Post by **swoodard23** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 4:09 pm

I am building a kit car and trying to decide on a donor. I have narrowed it down to the vw beetle or fiero chassis. I am planning on selling a kit and am trying to feel out a market. It is a porsche derived supercar. I am a little ify about vw performance but am willing to try. I am going to try to post the pics. it is loosly based on a gt2 with a lower profile, wider tail, and forward cab

www.angelfire.com/blues2/swoodard23/gt2rcolor.jpg www.angelfire.com/blues2/swoodard23/gt2rcolor2.jpg

[This message has been edited by swoodard23 (edited 02-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by swoodard23 (edited 02-13-2003).]

BobMiller · Post by **BobMiller** » Tue Feb 04, 2003 8:39 pm

Swwodard23
Nice graphic. The decision you have to make is a tough one. There are lots of rebody kits out there for Fiero's and lots of body kits for VW pans. Of course, here we prefer VW based kit cars, but you are right, there are some limitations to performance and handling. I think, as a rule, that the Fiero rebody kits tend to be much more expensive than the VW kits, but many of the VW kits we have seen over the years don't have the fit and finish that we see on the Fiero kits. Also remember that the Fiero kits usually retain more of the original basic body around the cockpit area, that will place some restraints on your design whereas, with a VW body, you will have to provide the entire cockpit area as a part of the kit.

There is a major Kit Car show in April at Knotts Berry Farm in CA this April. That might be an excellent venue to check outbefore you start spending money.

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1966 MANX SR2 (Karma Coachworks), 1974 VW THING

Shadowbug · Post by **Shadowbug** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 1:20 pm

the vw pan has a lot more flexibility in body shape and drive train goes.

if you've based your design on porsche dimentions, theres no reason that you coudn't fit a porsche flat 6 into your car, as well, since may porsche parts fit onto the vw pan fairly easilt, it'd all help towards authenticity.

if you're worried about ride quality on the vw pan, there are may suspension mods out there to help with this, as well many enthusiasts are working on tubular pan replacements with updated suspensions. this is something to consider.

Myself, I've worked in the boat building trade, so Have been considering building my own one off sports car, of course it will be vw based (combination of beetle and golf) Mostly because of the flexibility of the platform, and easy swap of porsche parts.

BobMiller · Post by **BobMiller** » Fri Feb 07, 2003 3:31 pm

Good Points Shadowbug...

In designing your car, if you elect to use the VW base, be sure to include space for any engine that could be attached to a VW, Bus or Porsche trans, As this would include several watercooled flat 4's and 6's you might want to include a provision for radiators for water and for oil coolers. You might also include some of the upright engines into your design considerations such as the VW GTI and VR6 engines. These all bolt to the VW trans.

In the case of the now 35 year old MANX SR design, Bruce Meyers intentionally designed the engine bay for any then available engine including Porsche, Corvair, Type III & 411's. He provided several variations on the engine cover as well, with larger rear grills and top intake scoops. As a result hey all look like a part of the original design.

Keep us posted on your ideas, You will find no shortage of opinions around here (LOL)

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1966 MANX SR2 (Karma Coachworks), 1974 VW THING

yilon · Post by **yilon** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:17 pm

The Beetle VW chassis is a really good start for a custom body as the flat pan/central tunnel allow a great deal of leeway in the design of the body to be mounted.

The Beetle handling is a bit limited. However, if you use a Super Beetle pan, you get a 'baby Porsche' suspension front and rear.

As to power. You can get a lot of power out of a Type 1 air-cooled VW. You can get the same power plus more torque and reliabilty from a Type IV air-cooled VW. There are a fair number of highly modified Type IVs that produce 200+HP and bushels of torque normally aspirated.

The rear mounted air-cooled VW still allows decent weight distribution. Rear mounted water-cooled engines are heavier and the weight distribution problems can get out of hand in a very light vehicle.

Shadowbug · Post by **Shadowbug** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 7:37 pm

not a bad idea, to base a kit on the super beetle, considering they're plentyfull and handling is slightly better.

you'd just have to figure out a way to incorperate the macpherson top attachment point into the body

bradleygt2 · Post by **bradleygt2** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:04 pm

why not use the super bettle pan and graft mustange two front suspension .

RacerBVD · Post by **RacerBVD** » Sat Feb 08, 2003 9:17 pm

With Super Beetle front susp. you can use 944/951 susp up there, and you can use 944/951 rear control arms on 69 up beetles. You might also consider a 914 as a base.

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RacerBVD
http://members.rennlist.com/racerbvd/

swoodard23 · Post by **swoodard23** » Sun Feb 09, 2003 4:09 pm

I have considered a 914 for a donor but a fiero has more power,less problems with rust, and is cheaper to buy in decent shape. Both are unibodies which is why I have considered a vw pan. One question I have is the estimated weight of the car without the body(pan, suspension, engine and tranny). Also how much support needs to be utilized to keep the pan from twisting. I have found the corvair engine conversion interesting. I definitely think the vw chassis would be easier to fit a body too. However I would have to fabricate a firewall, and complete interior.
Thanks,
Scott

verywild · Post by **verywild** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:01 pm

have you thought of a tube chassi?
it would allow intresting engine options VW (after 98) have cable shifted trans linkages. as for front ends it is possible to
put a beam on a super pan. the super would be hard to fit but have some of the advantages like the 944 parts and brakes. with a tube chassi it wouldn't be difficult to put mounts in the design. as for 914 that would be a poor chassi unless you just use parts of it and that brings you back to tubes again.
one thing about kits- always pick components that are available (cheap) so it makes the kit more valuable.

verywild · Post by **verywild** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:10 pm

have you thought of a tube chassi?
it would allow intresting engine options VW (after 98) have cable shifted trans linkages. as for front ends it is possible to
put a beam on a super pan. the super would be hard to fit but have some of the advantages like the 944 parts and brakes. with a tube chassi it wouldn't be difficult to put mounts in the design. as for 914 that would be a poor chassi unless you just use parts of it and that brings you back to tubes again.
one thing about kits- always pick components that are available (cheap) so it makes the kit more valuable.

James2 · Post by **James2** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:22 pm

I think you should have a custom tube frame, then use a popular front wheel drive platform mid mounted.

Not trying to be an *** , but the way i see it, the Pontiac is getting hard to find, and decent VW pans are also. Niether are that good of performers in stock form. The 914 is a sports car in it's own right, even if it is a slow one.

meanwhile, you have tons of late 80's dependable, cheap front wheel drivetrains to pick from. These offer more power, reliability and should be easier to find.

How about your body on a custom tube frame with an early SHO 220 hp motor and 5 speed?

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Disclaimer: James2 is a fictional character. Many people, places, and things in the posts are fictional/allegorical and for entertainment purposes only.

VW_Factor · Post by **VW_Factor** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:24 pm

Super Beetle pan I think would be an excellent choice for this style vehicle.. Like before mentioned, its "loosely based on a Porsche", I think was said.. Super Beetle suspension can be finely tuned with aftermarket parts, to handle as well as the "real deal Porsche". As to power.. Twin VW turbo's on a VR6.. Run your "water pipes" up front somehow, and mount the radiator up there somewhere, or even under the car perhaps.. You would have no lack of power whatsoever, and it would be all stock VW parts, minus perhaps the program in the computer. *dreams up a dream vehicle*

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Volkswagen Factor http://j.bandy.home.attbi.com

James2 · Post by **James2** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 8:26 pm

"a porsche derived supercar"

added note, I wouldn't call anything built on a VW or Fiero frame a "supercar".

I'm thinking something from Subaru would be great. They made some 2.5 litre engines with decent power.

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Disclaimer: James2 is a fictional character. Many people, places, and things in the posts are fictional/allegorical and for entertainment purposes only.

swoodard23 · Post by **swoodard23** » Thu Feb 13, 2003 7:12 am

I also thought of putting out a wide body spyder. It wouldn't need much engine power and the interior would be much easier. What do you guys think?