Hey,
I now own an 84 Rabbit Vert K-Jet. It's an Ebay find, so I haven't visually inspected it yet. For $31 I figure it's worth it, plus a few bucks to mail it.
I know I have the air box, fuel distributor, air bypass valve, fuel pressure regulator, lines and injectors. Don't know if there's other stuff attached that ol' boy doesn't really know to mention. I shouldn't need much else for the basic system.
I'd like to go with a 2 pump set-up, 1 hi-volume, low pressure pump from the front tank, through a filter, and on to a surge tank. Then the surge tank will have the hi-pressure Bosche pump on it, and this is where the return line will come as well.
I guess I still need a fuel accumulator, cold start valve and thermo-time switch as well, plus assorted ducting and piping. Remember this is going to be intermingled with a T3 turbo on a 1.7L T4.
I'm going to have to invest in the Bently K-Jet tech manual as well. For $15 I figure it will save a lot of headache, trial and error, head scratching and wrong parts fiddling.
If I get 125hp from a basically stock 1.7L T4 I'll be super happy. If I get more I'll be even more happy.
No questions yet, but many to follow. Just opening myself up for comments, suggestions, flames, etc.
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
'84 VW K-Jet
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Derek May
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 1:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
cool. I have a 2.0L van and was thinking of throwing a 78mm stroke, maybe 96 mm pistons in there and the CIS from a mid 70's volvo, which had a 2.3L engine in it.
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ray greenwood
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Depending on the year and type of the CIS, you will also need to be sure you have the control pressure regulator and the lambda box with the frequency valve injector. This is responsible for maintaining even fuel/mix from input from the 02 sensor. Also, make sure you get all of the check valves that came inline from the fuel pump. They are usually attached. The 2 pump system is only necessary on certain fuel pumps #'s. One is a volume feed pump, the other is the pressure producing pump. The standard fuel accumulator that is set for the correct line main pressure of the system yu are using is all you will need to operate it correctly. The nice-est fuel distributors to have, are those models with the little hex key covers next to the fuel lines. Those are individual adjustment screws used to make fine adjustments to balance the opening points of your injectors. Ray
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Derek May:
cool. I have a 2.0L van and was thinking of throwing a 78mm stroke, maybe 96 mm pistons in there and the CIS from a mid 70's volvo, which had a 2.3L engine in it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not all the volvos had 2.3L engines. In fact, most had 2.1s, and I thought it wasn't until the early 80s that they went that big, maybe 78-ish.
Yes, the 2.3L unit would be the best choice, but these engines were somewhat rare, and thus will be harder to find and more expensive when you do.
I'm hoping that my 84 VW CIS is just K-lambda, not KE, I don't think it's KE. In either case I'll be pushing it to it's limit with a turbo. Miller FI claims that the basic units are only good for 100hp, and I expect more than that. Hopfully if its a lambda version, that system will keep me from going TOO lean, even if not as rich as really needed. Before I do any more parts aquiring, and especially before I do any layout or assembly, I'll invest in the Bently K-Jet specific tech manual. I want to get this thing right the first time. I may even be forced to buy some extended injector lines, since it looks like the best place for the airbox is near or in a fender.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
cool. I have a 2.0L van and was thinking of throwing a 78mm stroke, maybe 96 mm pistons in there and the CIS from a mid 70's volvo, which had a 2.3L engine in it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Not all the volvos had 2.3L engines. In fact, most had 2.1s, and I thought it wasn't until the early 80s that they went that big, maybe 78-ish.
Yes, the 2.3L unit would be the best choice, but these engines were somewhat rare, and thus will be harder to find and more expensive when you do.
I'm hoping that my 84 VW CIS is just K-lambda, not KE, I don't think it's KE. In either case I'll be pushing it to it's limit with a turbo. Miller FI claims that the basic units are only good for 100hp, and I expect more than that. Hopfully if its a lambda version, that system will keep me from going TOO lean, even if not as rich as really needed. Before I do any more parts aquiring, and especially before I do any layout or assembly, I'll invest in the Bently K-Jet specific tech manual. I want to get this thing right the first time. I may even be forced to buy some extended injector lines, since it looks like the best place for the airbox is near or in a fender.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
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ray greenwood
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
I keep trying to figure how people are able to claim an injection system is only good for one volume of HP or another. That makes no sense. Maybe, unmodified an a specific engine...maybe...but that has nothing to with the injection. Thats the application. Basic CIS on my 2.0 liter SAAB produces 110 HP stock with no mods. It uses the same injector volume as the rabbits. With fuel metering adjustments, port work, compression changes...and god knows what else I can come up with...I have seen that same injection system produce up to 156 HP in other peoples SAABs I have worked on. It will pay to thouroughly understand this system, what it accompishes , how its applied, how you can modify it etc. Before buying into everything you read. Not trying to insult anyone...just some food for thought. Ray
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Bobtail
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ray greenwood:
I keep trying to figure how people are able to claim an injection system is only good for one volume of HP or another. That makes no sense. Maybe, unmodified an a specific engine...maybe...but that has nothing to with the injection. Thats the application. Basic CIS on my 2.0 liter SAAB produces 110 HP stock with no mods. It uses the same injector volume as the rabbits. With fuel metering adjustments, port work, compression changes...and god knows what else I can come up with...I have seen that same injection system produce up to 156 HP in other peoples SAABs I have worked on. It will pay to thouroughly understand this system, what it accompishes , how its applied, how you can modify it etc. Before buying into everything you read. Not trying to insult anyone...just some food for thought. Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good point Ray, as always.
Using a scirocco 1.8 system we got up to 170bhp on a T4 to get more we used KE jet injectors and boost controlled them and still using the same system with more engine mods we are producing 300+ bhp.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
I keep trying to figure how people are able to claim an injection system is only good for one volume of HP or another. That makes no sense. Maybe, unmodified an a specific engine...maybe...but that has nothing to with the injection. Thats the application. Basic CIS on my 2.0 liter SAAB produces 110 HP stock with no mods. It uses the same injector volume as the rabbits. With fuel metering adjustments, port work, compression changes...and god knows what else I can come up with...I have seen that same injection system produce up to 156 HP in other peoples SAABs I have worked on. It will pay to thouroughly understand this system, what it accompishes , how its applied, how you can modify it etc. Before buying into everything you read. Not trying to insult anyone...just some food for thought. Ray<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good point Ray, as always.
Using a scirocco 1.8 system we got up to 170bhp on a T4 to get more we used KE jet injectors and boost controlled them and still using the same system with more engine mods we are producing 300+ bhp.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Bobtail,
I glanced at your site and didn't see your monster T4 CIS turbo engine. Have you got a link?
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
I glanced at your site and didn't see your monster T4 CIS turbo engine. Have you got a link?
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
-
Bobtail
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
http://www.centralvwaudi.com/Russ_Fellows.htm
That should do it.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
That should do it.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Very interesting. Not very technically details, but interesting.
So, about 18 lb boost, eh?
No squish on the chambers too.
71mm crank with stock rods. Wild.
Interesting ignition setup as well. I wouldn't think the individual coils would have time to charge up.
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
So, about 18 lb boost, eh?
No squish on the chambers too.
71mm crank with stock rods. Wild.
Interesting ignition setup as well. I wouldn't think the individual coils would have time to charge up.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
-
Bobtail
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
The coils are firing two plugs at once but only once every revolution unlike a stock coil which has to fire 4 times per revolution.
We still haven't used the C-16 fuel we got, so we can whack up the boost.
Everything is on a diet this season including the driver who wants to see the 10's.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
We still haven't used the C-16 fuel we got, so we can whack up the boost.
Everything is on a diet this season including the driver who wants to see the 10's.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Yes the coils are firing once every other rev, but from the limited diagram it looks like they only charge for a moment before they fire.
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
-
Derek May
- Posts: 217
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2001 1:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Guys:
I think I got the idea from Miller's CSI site that the stuff from a Volvo, mixed with the stuff from my L-jet bus system provide a good CIS or K-jet setup. Ray, I've got a lot to learn about K-jet before trying this, if I do so, and as you point out, its important to understand how things worked.
I believe the 242GL volvos of the mid-late 70's had the 2.3L with K-jet, the 242DL (my Dad had a '76) had the 2.1L engine with L-Jet FI.
Ray: in your view, is there a k-jet application that would provide the best starting point for canibalization and installation in a T4? I had assumed that if I was using a 2270 T4 engine, starting with the bits from a k-jet set up for a similarly displaced engine would be a good start, but perhaps it doesn't matter. I'm interested in more torque with a basically stock torque band, not high rev HP -- Its a bus, I live in British Columbia .. we have lots of mountains, I want to do more than 38mph up the grade.
My plan is to use the stock throttle body, plennum and runners from the 2.0L engine. Your pointer and reminder that there a number of bits and pieces necessary is well taken.
I think I got the idea from Miller's CSI site that the stuff from a Volvo, mixed with the stuff from my L-jet bus system provide a good CIS or K-jet setup. Ray, I've got a lot to learn about K-jet before trying this, if I do so, and as you point out, its important to understand how things worked.
I believe the 242GL volvos of the mid-late 70's had the 2.3L with K-jet, the 242DL (my Dad had a '76) had the 2.1L engine with L-Jet FI.
Ray: in your view, is there a k-jet application that would provide the best starting point for canibalization and installation in a T4? I had assumed that if I was using a 2270 T4 engine, starting with the bits from a k-jet set up for a similarly displaced engine would be a good start, but perhaps it doesn't matter. I'm interested in more torque with a basically stock torque band, not high rev HP -- Its a bus, I live in British Columbia .. we have lots of mountains, I want to do more than 38mph up the grade.
My plan is to use the stock throttle body, plennum and runners from the 2.0L engine. Your pointer and reminder that there a number of bits and pieces necessary is well taken.
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Bobtail
- Posts: 963
- Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Derek May:
<B>Guys:
Ray: in your view, is there a k-jet application that would provide the best starting point for canibalization and installation in a T4? I had assumed that if I was using a 2270 T4 engine, starting with the bits from a k-jet set up for a similarly displaced engine would be a good start, but perhaps it doesn't matter. I'm interested in more torque with a basically stock torque band, not high rev HP -- Its a bus, I live in British Columbia .. we have lots of mountains, I want to do more than 38mph up the grade.
My plan is to use the stock throttle body, plennum and runners from the 2.0L engine. Your pointer and reminder that there a number of bits and pieces necessary is well taken.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Scuse me Ray,Yes you're right tho' it doesn't need to be that exact a size.
We are using a Scirocco 1.8 metering head and airflow meter on a 2.4 turbo T4 we just added 4 electric injectors when we were gettin too lean at high rpm,and controlled them with a mfa boost controller.
The manifolds are where you can gain a lot of performance aswell as the throttle bodies.
start with an Audi 100 then go to twin when you're short of air.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
<B>Guys:
Ray: in your view, is there a k-jet application that would provide the best starting point for canibalization and installation in a T4? I had assumed that if I was using a 2270 T4 engine, starting with the bits from a k-jet set up for a similarly displaced engine would be a good start, but perhaps it doesn't matter. I'm interested in more torque with a basically stock torque band, not high rev HP -- Its a bus, I live in British Columbia .. we have lots of mountains, I want to do more than 38mph up the grade.
My plan is to use the stock throttle body, plennum and runners from the 2.0L engine. Your pointer and reminder that there a number of bits and pieces necessary is well taken.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Scuse me Ray,Yes you're right tho' it doesn't need to be that exact a size.
We are using a Scirocco 1.8 metering head and airflow meter on a 2.4 turbo T4 we just added 4 electric injectors when we were gettin too lean at high rpm,and controlled them with a mfa boost controller.
The manifolds are where you can gain a lot of performance aswell as the throttle bodies.
start with an Audi 100 then go to twin when you're short of air.
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www.centralvwaudi.com
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ray greenwood
- Posts: 1941
- Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Bobtail, thats just about the model I would have suggested. What year. I tend to think the early non CIS-e models of the original sirroco had the best tunability with the individual fuel pressure trimming screws on the fuel distributor. The air-bowl was a little less advanced than later models in shape, but worked well. I used to hate working on SAABs...but since I have owned one for a couple of years, I have found they have a very effective version of CIS...that also has the trimming screws and a really nice TB and enrichment system...but the vacume system and the intake manifold are junk. Ray
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
\'84 VW K-Jet
Individual trim. Hmmm.
Did the V8 Mercedes have a model with individual trim?
Volvo air meter, Mercedes V8 distributor, Audi throttle, VW runners, custom plenum.
Lean half the injectors so that they don't even open until about half throttle or more at 3000 RPM or more. Running on a 4 cyl engine you can tune the lower half to be right on, while at higher RPM, especially where boost might be present, you have spare injectors running you rich.
Hmmm.
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
Did the V8 Mercedes have a model with individual trim?
Volvo air meter, Mercedes V8 distributor, Audi throttle, VW runners, custom plenum.
Lean half the injectors so that they don't even open until about half throttle or more at 3000 RPM or more. Running on a 4 cyl engine you can tune the lower half to be right on, while at higher RPM, especially where boost might be present, you have spare injectors running you rich.
Hmmm.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West