David--
The last Renault *I'm* aware of for sale in the US was the Alliance which was carried by AMC prior to that company being purchased by Chrysler. I don't know the exact production dates but I'm sure it was NOT being sold new after 1986 or '87.
The better bet for me, I think, would be to look into the Alfas.
Thanks guys!
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
alternatives to porsche boxes?
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david thomas
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
hello everyone, how are you all? well i hope.
i have a porsche 915 trans in my type 2, and was with a friend who works with gearboxes the other day, who was looking at my box, and he raised a few interesting points.
he seemed to think that the 80's/ early 90's audi 2wd models had a similar shape box to the 915, and that the alfasud box was also a similar shape.
i wondered if anybody knows if either of these boxes will fit a t1/t4 engine reasonably easily, or any other boxes that anyone can suggest. porsche boxes are good, but quite pricey, it'd be nice if we could find a reasonably priced, readily available tranny that you could put plenty horses through, so get your thinking caps on!!!!
i have a porsche 915 trans in my type 2, and was with a friend who works with gearboxes the other day, who was looking at my box, and he raised a few interesting points.
he seemed to think that the 80's/ early 90's audi 2wd models had a similar shape box to the 915, and that the alfasud box was also a similar shape.
i wondered if anybody knows if either of these boxes will fit a t1/t4 engine reasonably easily, or any other boxes that anyone can suggest. porsche boxes are good, but quite pricey, it'd be nice if we could find a reasonably priced, readily available tranny that you could put plenty horses through, so get your thinking caps on!!!!
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H2OSB
alternatives to porsche boxes?
Yes they do have a similar shape. Unfortunately, the case does not allow for the ring gear to be flipped, and you would need to do that to run one of those in a rear engine application. I looked into using a VW Fox gearbox (don't know if you have the Fox in the UK) which uses the same layout as the Audi boxes and comes in five speed, but wound up disappointed.
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
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Cam
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
Hi guys,
Check out a company called Hewland Transmissions in the U.K. A few high powered racing beetles in Germany use their 6 speed sequential gearboxes, for rear engined cars.
They have a website, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. And from memory their prices were fairly reasonable.
Failing that check out some SAAB gearboxes, I'm not sure exaclty what they look like, but SAAB's use one of the most bizarre engine/gearbox layouts around so you may be surprised!
Cam
Check out a company called Hewland Transmissions in the U.K. A few high powered racing beetles in Germany use their 6 speed sequential gearboxes, for rear engined cars.
They have a website, but I can't remember it off the top of my head. And from memory their prices were fairly reasonable.
Failing that check out some SAAB gearboxes, I'm not sure exaclty what they look like, but SAAB's use one of the most bizarre engine/gearbox layouts around so you may be surprised!
Cam
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Cam
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
Back again...
Here are some links.
The first two are of some beetles running the Hewland six speeds, and the third is for the company that makes them.
Cam
http://bonekar.com/VolksWagen/TypeVier/ ... ijonUs.htm http://bonekar.com/VolksWagen/TypeVier/us/GtpUs.htm http://www.hewland-engineering.co.uk
Here are some links.
The first two are of some beetles running the Hewland six speeds, and the third is for the company that makes them.
Cam
http://bonekar.com/VolksWagen/TypeVier/ ... ijonUs.htm http://bonekar.com/VolksWagen/TypeVier/us/GtpUs.htm http://www.hewland-engineering.co.uk
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samcat
- Posts: 1088
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
6 speed sequential.... Hmmmm
Thats got me thinking about a potential upgrade to my bug... (currently on a 911/01 box)
What would be involved in converting that box to paddle shift?
Cheers,
Sam C
Thats got me thinking about a potential upgrade to my bug... (currently on a 911/01 box)
What would be involved in converting that box to paddle shift?
Cheers,
Sam C
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david thomas
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
well, thankyou, by the way, h20sb, what is a fox? ok, so audi & alfasud are out of the window, but hewland transmissions sounds like a very good option. am i right in thinking that 80's/ 90's saab 900 turbo has the same layout as vw? or is it the other way round? or can the drive be reversed if it is the other way round? a nice cheap readily available box vapable of taking power? the saga continues.........
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gruntie
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Wed May 30, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
Don't know if it's still true but several years ago Hewland boxes were only available with straight-cut gears. Earplugs were an optional accessory........
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H2OSB
alternatives to porsche boxes?
I wrote to Hewland and have received a response. Their MK9 is the box to use for a Beetle application. It still must be modified to be used because they have it designed it to be fitted upside down from the way a Beetles holds it, but they even gave me the name of a shop that does those mods.
The housing is identical (for the most part) to a type I IRS gearbox, however they make the cases themselves from Aluminum (sorry I can't spell that the Brit way).
Also, If money is no object, I think it's a GREAT alternative because they managed to fit five forward speeds and a reverse into what is essentially a stock size type I gearbox.
I didn't ask about the straight cut gears...not too keen on that idea.
Oh, and one other thing...I did NOT find them to be inexpensive. For the "standard" five speed...2,580 British Pounds. If you add the limited slip and stouter gears...3,090 BP. However, you'd be getting a fairly bulletproof gearbox with the EXACT ratios and final drive you want that would fit into an unmodified chassis.
The Berg five is about 60% the cost of this (installed) and is still a Beetle gear box. If you use an Autocraft case and custom gears along with a limited slip, the Berg starts to get really close to the cost of a Hewland, AND you still have to make slight (I know, very slight.) modifications to fit it. Also (and this is the WORST for me.) you must use one of those UGLY Berg shifters (I don't mean to offend anyone, I simply don't like them.).
The Porsche 901 is probably the most inexpensive option, but does require modifications to fit it and has a weak first gear. I have heard that the stock Beetle shifter CAN be made to work, but it's generally easier to retro-fit a Porsche shifter.
There are LOTS of 901 variations with many different ratios so it's likely a suitable gearset can be found. Any Porsche box can be mighty expensive to rebuild and ALL of the 901s are getting LOOONG in the tooth. The 901s also have a funny shift pattern with a dogleg 1st.
An interesting option is the 901 from a Porsche 914. It has a unique gearset from any of the other 901s, but does require the ring gear to be flipped and a 901 nose cone to be fitted for use in a Beetle. On the plus side the 914 was never an ultra popular car (in the USA anyway) so finding these boxes for very little is an easy prospect.
The Porsche 915 is larger than a 901 and has a standard H shift pattern. It was apparently designed to eliminate some of the problems associated with the earlier 901s. It can handle quite a bit more power than any of the 901s. Also, it weighs quite a bit more than a 901 and initial cost is generally AT LEAST double the cost of the 901.
Well, that's about all I know...sorry for such a long post.
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
The housing is identical (for the most part) to a type I IRS gearbox, however they make the cases themselves from Aluminum (sorry I can't spell that the Brit way).
Also, If money is no object, I think it's a GREAT alternative because they managed to fit five forward speeds and a reverse into what is essentially a stock size type I gearbox.
I didn't ask about the straight cut gears...not too keen on that idea.
Oh, and one other thing...I did NOT find them to be inexpensive. For the "standard" five speed...2,580 British Pounds. If you add the limited slip and stouter gears...3,090 BP. However, you'd be getting a fairly bulletproof gearbox with the EXACT ratios and final drive you want that would fit into an unmodified chassis.
The Berg five is about 60% the cost of this (installed) and is still a Beetle gear box. If you use an Autocraft case and custom gears along with a limited slip, the Berg starts to get really close to the cost of a Hewland, AND you still have to make slight (I know, very slight.) modifications to fit it. Also (and this is the WORST for me.) you must use one of those UGLY Berg shifters (I don't mean to offend anyone, I simply don't like them.).
The Porsche 901 is probably the most inexpensive option, but does require modifications to fit it and has a weak first gear. I have heard that the stock Beetle shifter CAN be made to work, but it's generally easier to retro-fit a Porsche shifter.
There are LOTS of 901 variations with many different ratios so it's likely a suitable gearset can be found. Any Porsche box can be mighty expensive to rebuild and ALL of the 901s are getting LOOONG in the tooth. The 901s also have a funny shift pattern with a dogleg 1st.
An interesting option is the 901 from a Porsche 914. It has a unique gearset from any of the other 901s, but does require the ring gear to be flipped and a 901 nose cone to be fitted for use in a Beetle. On the plus side the 914 was never an ultra popular car (in the USA anyway) so finding these boxes for very little is an easy prospect.
The Porsche 915 is larger than a 901 and has a standard H shift pattern. It was apparently designed to eliminate some of the problems associated with the earlier 901s. It can handle quite a bit more power than any of the 901s. Also, it weighs quite a bit more than a 901 and initial cost is generally AT LEAST double the cost of the 901.
Well, that's about all I know...sorry for such a long post.
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
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david thomas
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
well thanks john. dont feel bad about a long post, it was very informative!.actually, the reasons that i went for a 915 instead of
a 901 were:
915 can take more power
it has a regular shift pattern
parts are easier to come by than 901 bits
it's easy to use a 911 clutch with a 915, just turn a flywheel capable of taking the porsche clutch that bolts to a type 1 or 4 (depending on what you run) engine, dont forget to balance the crank, flywheel & front pulley. you then have a clutch that will take power.
and standard t2 clutch cable went straight onto the 915 arm using the porsche cable end lug!
oh yeah, nothing to do with this topic, but some porsche 911 steerng wheels fit straight onto t2 steering colums! thought youd like that one!
anyone had any experience with saab or other makes of transmission? hewland sounds great, but i'm just wondering if theres anything else out there thats readily available and inexpensive? might be a dream, but at least its a nice one with fellow vdubbers finances in mind!
by the way, my 915 cost me approx 650 pounds. are they about the same in other countries?
a 901 were:
915 can take more power
it has a regular shift pattern
parts are easier to come by than 901 bits
it's easy to use a 911 clutch with a 915, just turn a flywheel capable of taking the porsche clutch that bolts to a type 1 or 4 (depending on what you run) engine, dont forget to balance the crank, flywheel & front pulley. you then have a clutch that will take power.
and standard t2 clutch cable went straight onto the 915 arm using the porsche cable end lug!
oh yeah, nothing to do with this topic, but some porsche 911 steerng wheels fit straight onto t2 steering colums! thought youd like that one!
anyone had any experience with saab or other makes of transmission? hewland sounds great, but i'm just wondering if theres anything else out there thats readily available and inexpensive? might be a dream, but at least its a nice one with fellow vdubbers finances in mind!
by the way, my 915 cost me approx 650 pounds. are they about the same in other countries?
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Michael Ghia
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
You can use a Renault 25 gearbox and flip the diff... the Renault GTA V6 uses basically the same box but the opposite way round.
MG
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Modification is a form of Art.
MG
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Modification is a form of Art.
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david thomas
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
john, just a thought, is there a renault usa? or if not, maybe you could email renault in europe, and ask them if any of the cars that mike has mentioned were ever sold in the us at any time, and under what model names. otherwise get one mailed over, but that could prove costly i suppose.
let us know how you get on.
let us know how you get on.
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H2OSB
alternatives to porsche boxes?
Mr Ghia--
Can you tell me what cars those gearboxes came in? Or, perhaps the parts numbers? I know it's a tall order, but for many years Renaults were not even sold here in the States (I don't think they are still.). We can find an occational GTV, but they, too, are not frequent. I am bound and determined to have a 5-speed that will fit with little or no mods to the chassis.
TIA
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
Can you tell me what cars those gearboxes came in? Or, perhaps the parts numbers? I know it's a tall order, but for many years Renaults were not even sold here in the States (I don't think they are still.). We can find an occational GTV, but they, too, are not frequent. I am bound and determined to have a 5-speed that will fit with little or no mods to the chassis.
TIA
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johnL (aka H2OSB)
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Michael Ghia
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2001 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
John,
I didn't know any Renaults were brought into the states at all... I spoke to a guy in Aus a long time ago about the possibility of using the gearbox from a Renault 25 V6, Renault V6 Turbo, Renault GTA V6, Renault GTA V6 Turbo and the Renault Apline V6... all have a gearbox which is strong enough and can have the diff flipped around to suit the VW application. There are still mods needed to fit the Renault box to the VW chassis though... I've never done it or seen pics of one fitted but it has been done.
I don't have any info from the chat anymore... or even the guys name. Sorry.
I'm sure that you could find it somewhere on the net though... he was using Renault transmissions in conjunction with a VW Van and a V8 or some kind... my memory is fading !!!
MG
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Modification is a form of Art.
I didn't know any Renaults were brought into the states at all... I spoke to a guy in Aus a long time ago about the possibility of using the gearbox from a Renault 25 V6, Renault V6 Turbo, Renault GTA V6, Renault GTA V6 Turbo and the Renault Apline V6... all have a gearbox which is strong enough and can have the diff flipped around to suit the VW application. There are still mods needed to fit the Renault box to the VW chassis though... I've never done it or seen pics of one fitted but it has been done.
I don't have any info from the chat anymore... or even the guys name. Sorry.
I'm sure that you could find it somewhere on the net though... he was using Renault transmissions in conjunction with a VW Van and a V8 or some kind... my memory is fading !!!
MG
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Modification is a form of Art.
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Cam
- Posts: 554
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:01 am
alternatives to porsche boxes?
Hi,
Mike, what years did those model Renaults come out?
As for the Hewland being cheap... I did'nt say that, but once I get a good strong Berg 5 speed on shore here along with the ratios I want for a track and road rally/race car the Hewland item looks pretty competitive. And as you said John, the GB shifters are ugly (sorry all the old school guys, not my taste) not too mention they are'nt the most ideal item for constant up and down shifting either.
A targa tasmania (big road rally event down here) beetle used a fully built Berg 'box and after a few days in the event it decided to spit out 3rd gear.
I'm not sure on the quality of the Hewland items (they could be poorer for all I know) but for the price they are offering for all new parts. And the car's they run them in, it's definately more suited to my long term motor racing achievements than the Berg item is.
Aparently there is a new 6 speed sequential hewland item which can lend itself to a VW based application, although the cost's I'm not entirely sure about?!?!
And I'm positive all Hewland items come with LSD.... correct me if I'm wrong on those points though!
And as for straight cut gears, this was an option I was disapointed to find the Berg package did not offer since it was, again suited to the motor sport I compete and am interested in.
Sorry for the long post, and I in no way am paying out the Berg 5 speed package since it is indeed a great quality and ground breaking performance item in the VW industry, it's just not suited to the applications I take interest in.
Cam
Mike, what years did those model Renaults come out?
As for the Hewland being cheap... I did'nt say that, but once I get a good strong Berg 5 speed on shore here along with the ratios I want for a track and road rally/race car the Hewland item looks pretty competitive. And as you said John, the GB shifters are ugly (sorry all the old school guys, not my taste) not too mention they are'nt the most ideal item for constant up and down shifting either.
A targa tasmania (big road rally event down here) beetle used a fully built Berg 'box and after a few days in the event it decided to spit out 3rd gear.
I'm not sure on the quality of the Hewland items (they could be poorer for all I know) but for the price they are offering for all new parts. And the car's they run them in, it's definately more suited to my long term motor racing achievements than the Berg item is.
Aparently there is a new 6 speed sequential hewland item which can lend itself to a VW based application, although the cost's I'm not entirely sure about?!?!
And I'm positive all Hewland items come with LSD.... correct me if I'm wrong on those points though!
And as for straight cut gears, this was an option I was disapointed to find the Berg package did not offer since it was, again suited to the motor sport I compete and am interested in.
Sorry for the long post, and I in no way am paying out the Berg 5 speed package since it is indeed a great quality and ground breaking performance item in the VW industry, it's just not suited to the applications I take interest in.
Cam