So here's the deal. I "installed" my pertronix ignitor in my new SVDA distributor. I finally found the little bolt that you have to undo topull the thing out. (FINALLY!)
I hooked everything up just like the instructions told me to and BOOM!!!!!! Sounded like I'm off to Iraq! The bus ('74 species) sounded like one of those new-fangled stealth weapons'cept mine wasn't quite so "stealthy".
Heres the weird part. When I aligned the little mark on the distributor up with the rotor pointed toward the number one cylinder the vacuum thingy on the new distributor was placed about 180 degrees opposite from the old distributor that I had just removed. Are all distributors created equal? Does the physical layout on the outside of the distributor body matter to whats going on inside? (except for takeing into consideration the mark on the outside of the distributor body, of course)
I made sure the plug wires were all pointed in the correct direction. When I started the bus it would run VERY rough and the timing mark on my flywheel was WAY off. It looked to be about 20-28 degrees BTDC. (wouldn't that be to the LEFT of the O degree mark?) As I rotated the distributor toward the O mark (car is running really rough at this point) its starts to sputter and then lets out a gunshot! All the gang-bangers in my neighborhood went runnin'for cover! (I live in Echo Park for those in the "know") And just to make double sure I had the plug wires going to the correct cylinders I rotated the distributor 180 degrees to the place that the new vacuum looked like my old one. I changed all the plug wires to that orinentation and tried to start the car... nothing. Just kept turning over with out trying to catch.
I know this is a really long discription for what is probably a simple answer but I'm just trying to be complete. Thanks in "advance" (terrible pun there, dont 'ja think?)
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I'll make 'ya proud!
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bottomend
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Bobby74
- Posts: 1747
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2001 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
It sounds like 1 or more wires is in the wrong posistion. Remember 1-4-3-2 OR (when looking down at the dist.) 1-2-3-4 counter-clockwise.
Sometimes you have to turn the dist. cog/tang thing 180* to make the canistor be in the right posistion. Remove the keeper spring. You drive the little roll pin out of the shaft. Puit it back together rotated 180*. This will make it so when everything is in the right posistion the vaccume can won't be hitting anything and the rotor should line up with the notch on the dist. rim (well pretty close anyway) and points to the #1 spark plug wire.
Time the engine to 7.5BTDC (to the left, counter-clockwise from 0). See how it runs, if it feels like a little hesistation progressivly bump it up to No more than 9-10*. Double check that you aren't any higher than about 32* @ 3500rpm. If its L-jet (efi sorta) you can go a little higher..
Gang bangers ducking for cover!! rotfl, I could see that!
Good luck,
-Bobby
[This message has been edited by Bobby74 (edited 01-18-2003).]
Sometimes you have to turn the dist. cog/tang thing 180* to make the canistor be in the right posistion. Remove the keeper spring. You drive the little roll pin out of the shaft. Puit it back together rotated 180*. This will make it so when everything is in the right posistion the vaccume can won't be hitting anything and the rotor should line up with the notch on the dist. rim (well pretty close anyway) and points to the #1 spark plug wire.
Time the engine to 7.5BTDC (to the left, counter-clockwise from 0). See how it runs, if it feels like a little hesistation progressivly bump it up to No more than 9-10*. Double check that you aren't any higher than about 32* @ 3500rpm. If its L-jet (efi sorta) you can go a little higher..
Gang bangers ducking for cover!! rotfl, I could see that!
Good luck,
-Bobby
[This message has been edited by Bobby74 (edited 01-18-2003).]
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amskeptic
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Orientation: use clock dial visualization where flywheel is at 12 o'clock,
fan is at 6 o'clock.
Spark plug #1 is at 2 o'clock.
Spark plug #2 is at 4 o'clock.
Spark plug #3 is at 10 o'clock.
Spark plug #4 is at 8 o'clock.
Put engine at TDC #1,
( #3 rockers should be at overlap where intake is opening as exhaust is closing)
ACHTUNG: Look in the distributor drive hole from your access lid above the engine. Pretend that your distributor hole is also a clock. The slot should be at 11 o'clock and 5 o'clock on the right side, and it should be about 10:30 and 6:30 on the left side of the slot. This will help you determine the correct offset. Now pick up your distributor and put its drive tangs exactly as above, just over the hole it is to go into. It is sometimes difficult to decide which side the offset is, the tangs should be closer to the left edge of the shaft in that 11:00/5:00 position. Hold the drive tangs with your left hand, and rotate the body of the distributor with your right hand until the little nick on the edge of the body of the distributor is just under the rotor. Your orientation should be as follows:
Tangs at 11:00/5:00 equals 12 degrees off vertical which is your 12:00/6:00 flywheel to fan. Rotor should be at right about 4:30 with the nick on the edge of the distributor body right under it. Advance unit should be at about 3:00 to 3:30. Spark plug wires on cap should be #1 4:30, #2 1:30, #3 10:30, #4 7:30. Slap that puppy into the hole. I do not know the Pertronix initial timing deal, but with points you turn distributor clockwise until the points close, then other way until points just open. This will start your engine. Nicely.
Colin
fan is at 6 o'clock.
Spark plug #1 is at 2 o'clock.
Spark plug #2 is at 4 o'clock.
Spark plug #3 is at 10 o'clock.
Spark plug #4 is at 8 o'clock.
Put engine at TDC #1,
( #3 rockers should be at overlap where intake is opening as exhaust is closing)
ACHTUNG: Look in the distributor drive hole from your access lid above the engine. Pretend that your distributor hole is also a clock. The slot should be at 11 o'clock and 5 o'clock on the right side, and it should be about 10:30 and 6:30 on the left side of the slot. This will help you determine the correct offset. Now pick up your distributor and put its drive tangs exactly as above, just over the hole it is to go into. It is sometimes difficult to decide which side the offset is, the tangs should be closer to the left edge of the shaft in that 11:00/5:00 position. Hold the drive tangs with your left hand, and rotate the body of the distributor with your right hand until the little nick on the edge of the body of the distributor is just under the rotor. Your orientation should be as follows:
Tangs at 11:00/5:00 equals 12 degrees off vertical which is your 12:00/6:00 flywheel to fan. Rotor should be at right about 4:30 with the nick on the edge of the distributor body right under it. Advance unit should be at about 3:00 to 3:30. Spark plug wires on cap should be #1 4:30, #2 1:30, #3 10:30, #4 7:30. Slap that puppy into the hole. I do not know the Pertronix initial timing deal, but with points you turn distributor clockwise until the points close, then other way until points just open. This will start your engine. Nicely.
Colin
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bottomend
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Update- I got inspired to go out in the dark and check under the ...uh.. trunk(?)
I'll admit it.I aint proud. You guys had it right .I had a couple of plug wires backwards.
I timed it so I was sittin at 5*ATDC at idle(which was high at 1100 after warm-up). Reved up to 2500 RPM. It was right at O*. Then at 4000 it was 4*BTDC(thats to the left of zero, correct?)
It sounded like it was running very smooth so I took it for a spin around the block. (wearing a t-shirt and a jeans jacket....Sorry Skept!) I had very low power. It felt like a dog. I got it up to about 35 MPH and still not makeing usable power.
Heres a thought; on my old distributor there were Two vcuum lines attached to the distributor. The new one has only one hook up point for vacuum. I took the line that was comming off from the top side of the old vacuum and attached it too roughly the same place on the new vacuum advance (single input model). The unused vacuum line I simply plugged up. (this one had a split-off that went to both carbs) Something tells me that this is the one to stick on the vacuum advance. Is my instinct correct? (after a failed first attempt...)
Thanks guys. Dont give up on me. I'm motivated. (And I'm also getting my keyboard dirty right now... guess I couldn't wait to tell someone!)
I'll admit it.I aint proud. You guys had it right .I had a couple of plug wires backwards.
I timed it so I was sittin at 5*ATDC at idle(which was high at 1100 after warm-up). Reved up to 2500 RPM. It was right at O*. Then at 4000 it was 4*BTDC(thats to the left of zero, correct?)
It sounded like it was running very smooth so I took it for a spin around the block. (wearing a t-shirt and a jeans jacket....Sorry Skept!) I had very low power. It felt like a dog. I got it up to about 35 MPH and still not makeing usable power.
Heres a thought; on my old distributor there were Two vcuum lines attached to the distributor. The new one has only one hook up point for vacuum. I took the line that was comming off from the top side of the old vacuum and attached it too roughly the same place on the new vacuum advance (single input model). The unused vacuum line I simply plugged up. (this one had a split-off that went to both carbs) Something tells me that this is the one to stick on the vacuum advance. Is my instinct correct? (after a failed first attempt...)
Thanks guys. Dont give up on me. I'm motivated. (And I'm also getting my keyboard dirty right now... guess I couldn't wait to tell someone!)
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JeffH
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2000 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
with a single vaccuum distributor you should be timed at 7.5 deg BEFORE tdc
You are way underadvanced and this is why you have no power
Jeff
You are way underadvanced and this is why you have no power
Jeff
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amskeptic
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Lo, you are on the slippery slope to Originality-Be-Damned Hell, yea though ye walk through the Valley of Darkness, I shall endeavor to help you see the error of your ways.
You want your advance signal from the vacuum port on the left carb that faces OUT towards the left side of the carb. The branches to other carbs is supposed to be for EGR. Yes, you want your retard hose blocked ( the port on the left carb's throttle body that faces IN towards the flywheel) with your new distributor, although your central idling circuit will HATE you now that it no longer has the necessary air flow that the 10 ATDC timing-at-idle ORIGINAL distributor gave you. Now that you committed the egregious sin of wantonly ignoring the factory good sense commitment towards clean air, you must adjust your timing Before top-dead-center, as mentioned, try 7.5 BTDC.
Now, how are you going to deal with that racy idle? You will do as all those sinners before you have done, you will choke off the central idling idling circuit entirely. Then you will be treated to potential hesitation woes, driveability-when-cold pestilence, you will be plagued with the damnation of disturbed parameters, woe to those who stray. . .well, it IS Sunday. . .
Colin : )
[This message has been edited by amskeptic (edited 01-19-2003).]
You want your advance signal from the vacuum port on the left carb that faces OUT towards the left side of the carb. The branches to other carbs is supposed to be for EGR. Yes, you want your retard hose blocked ( the port on the left carb's throttle body that faces IN towards the flywheel) with your new distributor, although your central idling circuit will HATE you now that it no longer has the necessary air flow that the 10 ATDC timing-at-idle ORIGINAL distributor gave you. Now that you committed the egregious sin of wantonly ignoring the factory good sense commitment towards clean air, you must adjust your timing Before top-dead-center, as mentioned, try 7.5 BTDC.
Now, how are you going to deal with that racy idle? You will do as all those sinners before you have done, you will choke off the central idling idling circuit entirely. Then you will be treated to potential hesitation woes, driveability-when-cold pestilence, you will be plagued with the damnation of disturbed parameters, woe to those who stray. . .well, it IS Sunday. . .
Colin : )
[This message has been edited by amskeptic (edited 01-19-2003).]
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bottomend
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Cute. But not good enough. It's never good enough for I AM...! You always surprise me Skept.It's good. I like you. Just stay in Kendall till the spring thaw, OK. Promise?
I found your reply a little fuzzy due to the lack of your usual (and I might add accurate) polar coordinates.
"You want your advance signal from the vacuum port on the left carb that faces OUT towards the left side of the carb."
This has me a bit turned aroud as to which "left" your speaking of. And which "out" as well.
Next; ( the port on the left carb's throttle body that faces IN towards the flywheel)
...WHERE...?
I hate to be such a "sinner" but I think I'm gonna need my hand held to get this part right. I've read the Bentley manual on this and the Muir (which was useless) But there is just something about the way you explain stuff in your superior omniscience way that makes all the pain and suffering fade away...
I found your reply a little fuzzy due to the lack of your usual (and I might add accurate) polar coordinates.
"You want your advance signal from the vacuum port on the left carb that faces OUT towards the left side of the carb."
This has me a bit turned aroud as to which "left" your speaking of. And which "out" as well.
Next; ( the port on the left carb's throttle body that faces IN towards the flywheel)
...WHERE...?
I hate to be such a "sinner" but I think I'm gonna need my hand held to get this part right. I've read the Bentley manual on this and the Muir (which was useless) But there is just something about the way you explain stuff in your superior omniscience way that makes all the pain and suffering fade away...
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amskeptic
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
I made a Mistake.
The left side of the car, not carb, the port that faces out towards the left rear of the CAR is the advance hose connection.
The "clock dial" visualization is defined from the "above the engine" view through the access lid, see, top of the clock is your flywheel at 12, and the fan end of the engine is 6. Does this help?
So what are you going to do with your idle if you no longer have a vacuum retard side on your distributor? Did your pertronix kit give you any pointers?
Colin
The left side of the car, not carb, the port that faces out towards the left rear of the CAR is the advance hose connection.
The "clock dial" visualization is defined from the "above the engine" view through the access lid, see, top of the clock is your flywheel at 12, and the fan end of the engine is 6. Does this help?
So what are you going to do with your idle if you no longer have a vacuum retard side on your distributor? Did your pertronix kit give you any pointers?
Colin
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bottomend
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Wow, just like the garden of Eden. We all fall from Grace.It was your turn. You'll get over it.
Usually when I'm lookin down "the hole" I've got my butt pointed at the front windshield displaing my plumbers crack for everyone to enjoy. I guess I'm not tall enough to utilize this engineering marvel the manner in which it was intended...
I'm clear now as to which vacuum to use. I'm not clear where I find the central idling circut "choke off" point (your words).
Why will I now be plagued with lots of bad stuff like hesitation ect?(if thats too big of a question to answer, just tell me how I can get rid of these things... The theory will follow, I promise.)
I did notice something rather strange while down in the "hole" today...I had the car running and the tach was hooked up. I was checking out the little fuel filters and the one on the passenger side was taking BIG drinks and the drivers side filter was kinda just sippin'. Was this because he was afraid of getting stopped for DWI? Seriously, it was like a huge difference between the two carbs. Any thoughts?
The Pertronix instructions didnt say much about vacuum. Basically The new one should go in just like the old one... Yea, right!
Usually when I'm lookin down "the hole" I've got my butt pointed at the front windshield displaing my plumbers crack for everyone to enjoy. I guess I'm not tall enough to utilize this engineering marvel the manner in which it was intended...
I'm clear now as to which vacuum to use. I'm not clear where I find the central idling circut "choke off" point (your words).
Why will I now be plagued with lots of bad stuff like hesitation ect?(if thats too big of a question to answer, just tell me how I can get rid of these things... The theory will follow, I promise.)
I did notice something rather strange while down in the "hole" today...I had the car running and the tach was hooked up. I was checking out the little fuel filters and the one on the passenger side was taking BIG drinks and the drivers side filter was kinda just sippin'. Was this because he was afraid of getting stopped for DWI? Seriously, it was like a huge difference between the two carbs. Any thoughts?
The Pertronix instructions didnt say much about vacuum. Basically The new one should go in just like the old one... Yea, right!
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amskeptic
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Re: fuel filters. Ignore. You are witnessing percolations that are utterly meaningless.
Now then. The proper butt-crack display is for the enjoyment of oncoming motorists, all orientation definitions from this author assume that you are splayed across the tailgate peering down into the access lid whilst able to see the windshield.
Your central idling circuit, I pray, will still be contributing to your idle. BUT
if you have only an advance distributor now, I am assuming that you will end up with too fast an idle now that you have to set your timing to 7.5 BTDC. And then, you will turn that big beautiful brass screw on top of your left carburetor to slow the idle down, and then. . . your central idling circuit. . .will be. . . no more. And then. . . let the games begin. . . .
Colin
( so, what is your idling speed?)
Now then. The proper butt-crack display is for the enjoyment of oncoming motorists, all orientation definitions from this author assume that you are splayed across the tailgate peering down into the access lid whilst able to see the windshield.
Your central idling circuit, I pray, will still be contributing to your idle. BUT
if you have only an advance distributor now, I am assuming that you will end up with too fast an idle now that you have to set your timing to 7.5 BTDC. And then, you will turn that big beautiful brass screw on top of your left carburetor to slow the idle down, and then. . . your central idling circuit. . .will be. . . no more. And then. . . let the games begin. . . .
Colin
( so, what is your idling speed?)
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bottomend
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
Update!I have the greatest news to report(I think)!!!
I finally got the SVDA dist. with the pertronix installed "properly" and timed per ya'll's suggestion. Man, WHAT A DIFFERENCE IN POWER! Honestly, I cant believe the difference!!!
I live on a 30 degree hill and its usually a first gear chug-fest for the whole climb. Yesterday I took it in 2nd gear doin' 25 MPH!!!...(with a 5 MPH running start) And I wasn't even floored!!! I ued to get passed by everything (It's been 1 month sinced I've owned this bus and I had yet to pass another vehical on city streets!) but today I actually kept up with traffic!
So here are my question's;
Why 10*ATDC before and now 7.5*BTDC. Give it to me gently ...I'm in heaven right now. Am I about to torch the engine? Life expectancy dropped in half?
I'll post all the advance curve info in the next couple of days so you guys can better guide me. ( I'm getting real good at doing the timing at this point... It's fun!)
Skept-you were right. The idle's way up. I'm trying to follow the Muir book procedures on the carb adjustment as well as using the email you sent me. So far I dont really feel much interaction between the volume control and the idle adjust screw. Is the effect supposed to be as subtle as it seems? Does anything you wrote in the email change because of the new distributor?
About this "cental idling circut"... Is it simply the tube that comes out from the top of the left carb that connects to the air manifold? I unhooked it and blocked it off.
In your 1-19-03 @2:04pm post you said that the vacuum port on the left carb that faces out-wards is the place to get my advance signal. I did that but I'm confused because that same hose is also connected to something else in the back (flywheel direction) of the engine. I cant tell if it's going to the other carb or something else. I also blocked the retard hose.
While poking around I found the thermostat to not be working properly. It should keep the vent flaps closed untill the engine is warm, right? I'll see if I can check it or maybe I'll just buy a new one. Any suggestion?
It was a great feeling to finally have the engine respond to the distributor installation!!! Next up is the CDI unit install. I did it the other day but it didn't work. I must of hooked something up wrong. I unplugged everything and put it away.
I'm just trying to do one thing at a time. I bought a VW magazine around Thanksgiving and I thought you people were speaking another language. I couldn't understand anything! Today I went to DMV (1 hour 45 min. wait!) to get my new plates and I brought my idiot book. I got through the whole section on timimg and carbs (For the 3rd time) and it finally started to make sense...
BTW, The DMV lady told me that its true... NO MORE SMOG CHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I finally got the SVDA dist. with the pertronix installed "properly" and timed per ya'll's suggestion. Man, WHAT A DIFFERENCE IN POWER! Honestly, I cant believe the difference!!!
I live on a 30 degree hill and its usually a first gear chug-fest for the whole climb. Yesterday I took it in 2nd gear doin' 25 MPH!!!...(with a 5 MPH running start) And I wasn't even floored!!! I ued to get passed by everything (It's been 1 month sinced I've owned this bus and I had yet to pass another vehical on city streets!) but today I actually kept up with traffic!
So here are my question's;
Why 10*ATDC before and now 7.5*BTDC. Give it to me gently ...I'm in heaven right now. Am I about to torch the engine? Life expectancy dropped in half?
I'll post all the advance curve info in the next couple of days so you guys can better guide me. ( I'm getting real good at doing the timing at this point... It's fun!)
Skept-you were right. The idle's way up. I'm trying to follow the Muir book procedures on the carb adjustment as well as using the email you sent me. So far I dont really feel much interaction between the volume control and the idle adjust screw. Is the effect supposed to be as subtle as it seems? Does anything you wrote in the email change because of the new distributor?
About this "cental idling circut"... Is it simply the tube that comes out from the top of the left carb that connects to the air manifold? I unhooked it and blocked it off.
In your 1-19-03 @2:04pm post you said that the vacuum port on the left carb that faces out-wards is the place to get my advance signal. I did that but I'm confused because that same hose is also connected to something else in the back (flywheel direction) of the engine. I cant tell if it's going to the other carb or something else. I also blocked the retard hose.
While poking around I found the thermostat to not be working properly. It should keep the vent flaps closed untill the engine is warm, right? I'll see if I can check it or maybe I'll just buy a new one. Any suggestion?
It was a great feeling to finally have the engine respond to the distributor installation!!! Next up is the CDI unit install. I did it the other day but it didn't work. I must of hooked something up wrong. I unplugged everything and put it away.
I'm just trying to do one thing at a time. I bought a VW magazine around Thanksgiving and I thought you people were speaking another language. I couldn't understand anything! Today I went to DMV (1 hour 45 min. wait!) to get my new plates and I brought my idiot book. I got through the whole section on timimg and carbs (For the 3rd time) and it finally started to make sense...
BTW, The DMV lady told me that its true... NO MORE SMOG CHECK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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amskeptic
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bottomend:
Why 10*ATDC before and now 7.5*BTDC. Skept-you were right. The idle's way up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
10 ATDC was the setting with your vacuum retard actively pulling the timing down.
Now that you do not have the retard distributor, you have nothing pulling it down. Why did VW have that little retard?
So the central idling circuit (C.I.C.) could save the day with lots of airflow for a clean burn. Without C.I.C.s little retarded friend, it now contributes too much air. So you kill it by turning the big brass screw down on it dead. Maybe your idle will be OK with the C.I.C. dead, and your retard out of the picture, but you may now have a hesitation because the carbs don't like you taking away their little friends, the retard and the C.I.C. That's as gently as I can put it, you little murderer. . .
Colin : )
Why 10*ATDC before and now 7.5*BTDC. Skept-you were right. The idle's way up. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
10 ATDC was the setting with your vacuum retard actively pulling the timing down.
Now that you do not have the retard distributor, you have nothing pulling it down. Why did VW have that little retard?
So the central idling circuit (C.I.C.) could save the day with lots of airflow for a clean burn. Without C.I.C.s little retarded friend, it now contributes too much air. So you kill it by turning the big brass screw down on it dead. Maybe your idle will be OK with the C.I.C. dead, and your retard out of the picture, but you may now have a hesitation because the carbs don't like you taking away their little friends, the retard and the C.I.C. That's as gently as I can put it, you little murderer. . .
Colin : )
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bottomend
- Posts: 655
- Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2002 12:01 am
Issue me a dizzy sir, and I\'ll make \'ya proud!
As I have written above, there is ABSOLUTLY no hesitation at all anywhere in the powerband. As a matter of fact the bus really has some get up and go compared to what it had before. I was just worried that I might be in danger of burning something up. I know that the air/fuel mixture starts to burn at a certain point and then remains burning for a set duration. I dont really know exactly when these things take place. But I know that little chipmunk needs his (her?) pellets!