reality vs.morality

bottomend · Post by **bottomend** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:16 pm

Well,I guess I got my first boost of incentive this morning. I took my bus to a VW repair shop to have a fuel sender unit replaced. I chose this shop over the half dozen others I called because the guy seemed helpfull and moderatly attentive to my concerns.

Quote over the phone; $100 out the door. I said fine and I'll be there tomorrow. When I show up he immediatly says $147.00 +! Usually I'm not one to bring stuff like this up but I called him on it and then amnesia set in.

"Well we get lots of call I dont remember our conversation and I'm very busy right now." Over the phone the day befor he said hes got time to do it ... NO PROBLEM! COME ON DOWN!.Its the ole' bait'n switch routine. The workmanship left something to be desired. I came home and showed it to two of my neighbors and they both laughed in unison. the shame, the shame... The guy had cut a hole above the tank. Pretty simple remedy (wished I had thought of that) But man, couldn't you have done a neater job!

You know the vibe you get off people? (please bear with me those of you who dont reside in "Vibe" Angeles) Well, every other word out of this guy was only to cover the word that came before it...The shop rate sign on the wall says $50 but hes charging $75 ect,ect.

The next thing I know , Its gonna take two days to pull out my engine and the clutch is slipping madly, those breaks gotta go and I better not drive over a bridge 'cause there might be a boogy man down there...

This post is mostly just to vent. I'm more determined than ever to do my own work.

I think the last time I felt this jerked around was by my high school music teacher who had just opened a music store and I walked in to buy an electric bass. I asked why it cost so much and he told me he has to charge 20% over retail to make any money. I went away blissfully unaware ... Should've paid attention in economics class...

vwbusman215 · Post by **vwbusman215** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:33 pm

It's sad that people like that are even allowed to work on any vehicle, and even worse that they are deceptive enough to make money at it!

What goes around comes around!

------------------
Casey www.angelfire.com/tx5/76vwbus

[This message has been edited by vwbusman215 (edited 01-07-2003).]

amskeptic · Post by **amskeptic** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:28 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by bottomend:
The workmanship left something to be desired. The guy had cut a hole above the tank. Pretty simple remedy (wished I had thought of that) But man, couldn't you have done a neater job!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

#1. I would be pissed as hell if someone just hacked a hole in my Bus.
#2. There is a standard that requires a proper fireproof "firewall" between your fuel tank and the cabin of your car. Any access to the tank must be closed off by a plate that has a positive vapor seal.
#3. Go scare him a little.
#4. I thoroughly agree that the only way to do it is to do it yourself.
#5. Is your clutch free-play at least 3/4"?
Colin

bottomend · Post by **bottomend** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:47 pm

Just looked at your site busman. Nice.

It was weird at this guys shop because it was just him(the owner) and the mechcanic and they were talking about my bus and all the stuff it needed with out looking at me. I was like ..."hello, I'm standing right here, remember me?" I think the owner was trying to "impress" me by using technical jargon. Whopee! Lets play "stump the chump"! Actually, the mechcaninc seemed to be a nice guy. but that couldv'e been the "good cop bad cop" thing.

Boy, those guys are lucky I'm still on my honeymoon with my bus (two weeks!) or I would've just taken my ball back home and then they'd git it!... So there!

bottomend · Post by **bottomend** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:40 pm

Hey Skept! Thanks for poppin' in!
You wanna know the funny thing?... the first thing the "mechcanic" ( I'm going to use quotes for this guy!) said to me this morning when he climbed into the bus was,"gee, smells like you got yourself a little gas leak somewhere" Well, Buddy you aint helping things now , are you?!!!!
I have almost no sense of smell (hereditary?) and even I could smell the gas after he chopped the hole!

In all honesty I think the idea for a hole was a good one. Heck, if I'd been around when they were figureing this thing out I would've cast votes for holes everywhere! ACCESSIBILITY FOR ONE AND ALL!!!! My problem is they charged me an inflated shop rate for something that took them 10 MINUTES TOPS!!!!!! And it looks like crap! Now I gotta head down to Home Deep Hole and see If I can find something to create a "positive vapro seal" whatever that means...

One of my neighbors had a moment of thoughtful reflection upon gazing at the gapeing hole (and no doubt dizzy and hallucinating from the fumes as well) He said "well, now you know that on a VW you can just figure out a soultion yourself and do it better than a shop...dude."

Skept, Stop by the "rebuild forum" and check out my post there. I'm serious about what I'm asking.

verbeekb · Post by **verbeekb** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:10 pm

If it makes you feel any better, VW themselves described the cutahole method in their workshop manuals, maybe not the Bentley, I'm not familiar with them, but the original Volkswagen ones. If I recall correctly VW even had a part they supplied to cover the hole.

The mechanic should have contacted you on the decision to cut the hole or not. If he cut a hole in the bed of my single cab (restored etc.), I would insist on a new/NOS bed floor installed by a company/professional of my choice, and even then .. it would still not satisfy me .. the repaired condition of my Bus I mean .. never hit, no panel replaced .. etc ..

Oh well

Brian

JeffH · Post by **JeffH** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 8:40 pm

There should be no petrol smell from the tank even with a hole in the body above it
The mech may have "accidentally" ruptured one of the breather hose connections above the tank
Jeff

type2guy · Post by **type2guy** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:58 am

Yeah dude...that's a hack job for sure...literally! No shop should do that without consulting you first. The proper method is to remove the engine and gas tank. They probably charged you for that "labor" cost and did it the 10 minute hack way. I can't believe they didn't weld it back after cutting it! Amazing.

When I got my first bug ('74 Super Beetle) I bought it 'cause I knew nothing about fixing cars and the VW's seemed less intimidating to me. Unfortunatly for me the altenator went out 3 months after I purchased it. The Haynes I had said to remove the engine and so did the idiot book. I didn't have any tools to get the nut off the fan side. So i took it in. The guy charged me $375!!!!!! This was around '90 or so too!!! I told him I only paid $400 for the car and his response was "that I got a pretty good deal". Since then I've done all my own work. I got into busses, refurbished a junker, even rebuilt the engine for it. So now I know mostly how to do stuff myself or at least feel OK about giving it a shot.

Check out my website and look at the '59 Kombi link to see what I'm talking about. Definatly start learning now...before long you'll be able to do quite a bit. No one will care as much as you...and generally for VW drivers they've got a little more time than money.

Good luck.

Rex Rogers http://www.type2guy.com

Post by **Marc** » Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:37 am

FWIW, if you'd come to my shop for a fuel sender and I noticed that the clutch was going out I would've put it back in the lot, called you up, and advised you to live without a gas gauge until the engine was out for the clutch work, since the sender could be replaced easily then. Maybe you'd have ended up having all of the work done elsewhere, but even so you'd remember us as the shop that wasn't out to snag every quick buck that came by and had your best interests in mind. IMO there's no better advertising than satisfied customers - if you keep them (and their friends) coming to you by spending their money as wisely as possible you may lose a little income now and then but it's worth it many times over in PR value.

alsehendo · Post by **alsehendo** » Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:57 am

Keeping an old car up and going can be expensive if you can't do stuff yourself, when you dig into something often you will break somthing else that was read to let loose. This is while most shops don't like to muck with older cars.

bottomend · Post by **bottomend** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 7:22 pm

Well, heres an update on my situation...

I've been reading my three manuals. I've been watching my three videos. I've been eating my three square meals a day.

I'm not going to be held hostage ever again!!!!!! I just installed two new rear shocks. Tomorrow the CDI goes in and then a nice tune up. A month ago I didnt know the difference between a split window and a bay window. (no joking)
Theres ALOT to be said about personal property and the responsibility that goes with it. I'm convinced that if I take my time, learn the proper precedure and ask the right question's I can keep this bus running like its supposed to.
I'm not waltzing in here with the mindset that I can solve EVERY problem that I come across but I was again involved in a situation just today the further cemented my position...
I went to buy my first set of valve cover gaskets. They cost $4.50 ( I know, but at least they were cheaper than auto zone- $9.50!!!) Even I know that was a rip off but then again I guess the owner of the store has run up quite a bill with the local "chromer" shop that he needs to pay off. Every engine for sale in this place was SHINY as can be! Every square inch was SPARKELING! Is anyone here gonna argue that this guy "cares" about these engines or customers?

I guess I became a little naieve looking around on this forum. For a couple of months I saw all you folks who TRULY care about the integrity of these vehicals dish out good 'ole fashion advice. I shouldn't have been shocked to learn that the "real" world doesnt operate like that.

If any one is reading this who may find them selves in my situation a few months from now I say this. If you are phsically capable and if you want it done right. Do it yourself.

I'm sure thatthe people on this forum who run shops may not agree with me. But just the simple fact that you're here probably means that you care enough to do a good job. Keep up the quality work as you always have and you'll always have work.

As for me... Well, it all made sense the other day when I went shopping for coveralls to crawl around in. There were blue ones. There were green ones. There were Denim ones. I bought the orange ones.... to match my bus.

SuperBeetle71 · Post by **SuperBeetle71** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:06 pm

Even if you have the money to spare you should still consider doing most of the work yourself. I just removed the engine (first time ever), replaced the tranny with a rebuilt Rancho Performance unit, put in rebuilt axles, and fashioned a new battery tray out of sheet metal, all by myself. The only thing I didn't do was the cleaning and sealing of the gas tank which I sent to a shop for.
I can't imagine how much money I saved and it only took me 3 days, as opposed to like 2 weeks in the shop.
I felt high as a kite when I washed the last of the grease off my hands and cranked over my happy 1970 bus.
Do it yourself, it really pays in more ways than one.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 4:30 pm

Never forget that the joy of building/doing it can be darkened by having to re-do it in a flash, in a heartbeat....

If you do it and it breaks, don't gripe when you are laying on a cold concrete floor at 2am....

I do everything on my cars myself, all of it....there is a price to pay when something breaks..

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

amskeptic · Post by **amskeptic** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:57 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MASSIVE TYPE IV:
Never forget ....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really, Jake. . .
Do you think anyone here is going to *forget that setbacks happen? Do you think the mechanical universe has given anyone here a free ride? " oops, dang, I almost forgot. . things sometimes go wrong."
The pleasure derived from the Do It Yourself gang, I am sure, is only enhanced by the unnumerable obstacles that have been overcome by the tremendous persistence that is displayed by novices and experts alike here. Almost every post on this forum is evidence of the "darkening" you so darkly allude to.
Even the more basic questions here, from people who picked up a wrench for the first time only ten minutes before posting, show the courage of wading into the dark clueless about the walls they're about to crash into,
and I sure as hell ain't gonna lecture them about not griping when it all comes down on them. You've been there, I've been there, and I gripe every time. I expect all of us will continue to help the rest of us get moving again. I enjoy hearing about people who feel high as a kite getting their happy Bus moving again.
Colin