failed emission test, again

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Sat Nov 10, 2001 5:54 pm

I failed on hydrocarbons on the idle test. Max allowable is 1052 ppm, my bus read 1899 ppm. It's a 64 1500 single port, new intake to solve icing problem, all new tune up parts, no airleaks (that I can find), and 500 ml of methal hydrate in a full tank of 94 octane fuel. Any ideas??
I only have till friday until my insurance is due and I can't buy more till I pass.

Thanks
Matt

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Sun Nov 11, 2001 5:42 pm

Greetings. For what it's worth, I have read two different threads/posts that state that it may be worthwhile to run a lower octane fuel. I'm not sure about there, but here, the rating has been changed. What was 91 Ron is now equal to 87, which is low grade. The reason stated was that the days of old used lead to increase octane which slowed down the burn rate. Meaning that higher compression could be used. Today, they don't use lead. Other additives are used to slow down the burn. This may mean to you that all of the fuel is not burning, hence the higher emissions. Hopefully, others, more knowledgeable will add to this. I'm going from memory. Next time my 78 calif. Westy gets smogged I'll run low or mid-grade. Happy Trails

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 12:56 am

Huh, interesting outlook! but it failed on more than one occasion with low grade and mid grade, then I tried the 94 octane and it still failed. It's going to a shop tues. so I'll let them try to figure it out and probably pay through the nose!!!

Matt

------------------
1966 Notch
1964 Bus
http://www.sgvwa.20m.com

Derek May · Post by **Derek May** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 8:48 am

Perhaps is a Cdn urban legend, but I've heard that if you run the Mohawk Premium with Ethanol blended in, you can get a cleaner burn for your aircare test.

Did you pass last year with the same engine? Did you make any changes between the last passed test and the failed test?

I wonder if your carb is running too rich. Wonder also if you are using an 009 distributor or a dizzy with vaccuum advance.

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 10:45 am

vaccuum advance distributer. This is the first time (after my conditional 3 month period)through aircare. The fuel was Mowhawk premium. I have been through 7 times, at $24.00 a pop! The past week it has been at a shop but he couldn't get it through either. Now it's going to another shop that has a gas analyzer. UGH!!!

------------------
1966 Notch
1964 Bus
http://www.sgvwa.20m.com

Brutus · Post by **Brutus** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 1:16 pm

The octane deal is not a myth, the higher octain you run (if you don't need it to prevent pinging) the higher your emissions will be. Problem with saying I failed before with the low octane is that there might have been a dozen or more factors - half of which you can't control - namely the gas anyaliser. We use CO analysiers at work, and you can test the same machine three times, one time pass wonderfully, one time bearly pass, and the third fail misserably. I would place money on if you tested early in the morning (cooler denser air) that you would get a different reading than the afternoon. Unfortunately it sounds kinda expensive to try and figure out when is the best time to try and pass....

next time you go in to test, ask them to see a MSE (Measurement System Evaluation) for the equipment that shows that their testers are qualified (not specs mind you, an MSE), and that the operators are qualified ect. at least you can make them mad...

------------------
'69 Baja, '68 Bus, missing my '59 Double door

ray greenwood · Post by **ray greenwood** » Mon Nov 12, 2001 2:36 pm

One more thing that will fail you every time, but probably not be a factor on your year of bus. If you fill the gas tank on a vehicle with charcoal cannister, it forces all ofthe fumes in to the canister. You should drive it around for a while before pulling in to exhaust the fumes from the cannister, or else they will end up in your air cleaner as extra hydrocarbons. Things that will also affect your emmissions at idle: poor spark, float level bordering on too high (sloshing/evaporation at float vent)leaking jets...running rich in general. Also the position of the probe in the exhaust system can cause it not to heat properly. Especially on the narrow peashooter exhaust. You might also go to a plug without an extended nose (stays hot longer and burns fuel more efficiently at idle). If you are using an oil bath air cleaner and you havn't changed the oil...this puts ugly hydrocarbons in the intake. If you are using a non-stock element that is more restrictive or is dirty or you have low compression/low vacume...it will run rich at idle. Lastly, you may be getting excessive blow by from the crankcase..with lots of unburned fuel. Either clean up the blow by, or put a restrictor in the breather hose and re-adjust the idle. If the engine is not properly warmed up...or your cooling flaps/thermostat are not operating...it can also show rich due to blow-by. Ray

vwnate1 · Post by **vwnate1** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 3:13 pm

Your bus is running way to rich - shouldn't be over 800 PPM even with the 130 main jet I like to run . is the ignition too far advanced @ idle ? retard it to zero and see if that helps , I'd also change the oil (whilst hot) the same day you take it in , that and fresh spark plugs seem to be good for 200~300 PPM . you should be able to get a competent mechanic to adjust it running and on the tester , before he actually takes the test .

------------------
-Nate
Filth & Greed Imports
(the LAST honest VWshop)

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:31 pm

I have the bus at a local vw repair and restoration shop. It turns out the carb the other mechanic put on was hooped with a loose throttle shaft. that is all I know so far. I guess I should have went there in the first place. after this many times through the emissions test (@ $24.00 a pop) I figured it was out of my hands and now it is in the hands of a qualified mechanic. hopefully this works.

Matt

------------------
1966 Notch
1964 Bus
http://www.sgvwa.20m.com

regis101 · Post by **regis101** » Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:45 pm

doesn't surprise me. I had a carb shop at one time. the first thing i'd do with the customers carb was to check the shaft play in front of them. loose bores are 90% of the problem with poor idle quality. It's all part of the learning curve.

Glen Ellis · Post by **Glen Ellis** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 5:30 pm

Never Fear, it can be done.

My '68 VW Van has 405,000 miles on the first motor. No major work in 305,000 miles. It passes our emissions tests at 10% of allowable.

I use 87 oct regular gas. I use Castrol 20/50 oil with 10% STP (which is a thick oil treatment). The following describes the method I've used since I got my first VW, which was a '57 Beetle in New York.

(1) I change the oil every 1000 miles (cause an air cooled motor runs hot and deteriotes the oil sooner).
(2) I use Castrol 20/50, with 10% STP or 10% Lucas (cause old motors are loose).
(3) I never rev the motor over 2250 rpm/ 45 miles per hour (cause I don't want to know 'how fast it will go!').

In the morning, I start it up, warm up at 1000 rpm idle for 1 minute, then drive 'Easy' 15 miles to work. Same in the afternoon.

Just prior to an emissions test I do these things :
(1) I change the oil top off with 10% STP.
(2) Regap the distributor points to 16. I've always Eyeballed the the spark-in-the-gap to adjust the advance.
(3) Drive around the expressway at 45 mph for 15 minutes, (a) to get the motor cleared of lingering oil from my leaky valve guides and (b) thoroughly heat the motor.

So, good luck.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by regis101:
doesn't surprise me. I had a carb shop at one time. the first thing i'd do with the customers carb was to check the shaft play in front of them. loose bores are 90% of the problem with poor idle quality. It's all part of the learning curve. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Sat Nov 17, 2001 5:42 pm

Well it turns out to be a bad valves on #4 cyl. as well. since I don't want to pay 2 hrs per head to do valves I'm gonna change heads to a good pair a friend of mine has. Wish me luck.

Matt

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Sun Nov 18, 2001 6:34 pm

OK Installed new heads. Motor goes back in tommorrow night. Aircare test early in the week...hopefully!

Matt

------------------
1966 Notch
1964 Bus
http://www.sgvwa.20m.com

69bug · Post by **69bug** » Sun Nov 18, 2001 9:22 pm

HEY DUDE...MOVE TO CALIFORNIA WHERE ALL VEHICLES 1973 AND DOWN ARE EXEMPT FROM SMOG TESTING

LATES!

fastmatt1 · Post by **fastmatt1** » Sat Dec 01, 2001 12:26 pm

IT PASSED!!!!!! finally. With a new set of heads with new valves the HC dropped to 234 ppm instead of the 2000+. The CO was a little high at 5.39% where the max allowable was5.54%, but I'm not to concerened cause it passed! Thanks for everybody's help on this one.

Matt

------------------
1966 Notch
1964 Bus
http://www.sgvwa.20m.com