Delrin or Urethane bushings for street-only resto-mod Ghia?

[Evil_Fiz]

Hello, knowledgable ones, I come seeking wisdom and advice.
I am building a Subaru-powered 1970 Karmann Ghia convertible.
- Engine and trans are TBD.
- OE full-width beam with adjusters installed.
- CB Performance dropped drum spindles with Wilwood Dynalite calipers up front.
- Wilwood rear kit with E-Brake.

I am ready to start building the chassis but unsure how to proceed. In the road course setup, FJCamper recommends urethane suspension bushings.
- Are Delrin bushings worth the fitment headaches and effort for a street-only car that will never be driven over 80ish MPH and occasionally take a cloverleaf ramp at thrilling speeds? (I want to build a stable and durable platform.)
- Should I reuse the OE bearings IF they "test good" or is it better to replace them all? (cheap me says reuse, nervous geek me says replace with the best available.)
- How would I go about testing the bearings if reusing is a viable option?

Cheers,
Emil

[Ol'fogasaurus]

https://www.bing.com/search?q=delron+bu ... 38&pc=LCTS

I did a "look up" as I wasn't sure about the difference available. As near as I could tell is that the cost difference between Delron and other stuff might be the main reason for choice between what is out there, stock or ... including Delron.

For just stock type of use stock might do it but then there is whoof!

Lee

[Evil_Fiz]

Thabks for your comments, Lee.
I'm aware of the cost difference and benefits of Delrin over urethane over OE rubber. I have read here and on TS that the Delrin bushings require reaming and love to get them to fit. Many have complained about the effort involved in fitting them. I will be replacing all suspension bushings, front and rear. The data I am looking for is: is it worth it to go to all the trouble for Delrin or will urethane provide enough geometry stability for spirited street driving?

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Emil

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The data I am looking for is: is it worth it to go to all the trouble for Delrin or will urethane provide enough geometry stability for spirited street driving?

This, I would say, is really the answer to your question. "Spirited street driving" has a wide meaning kind of bordering or "putting a toe over the line to check things out" like "abuse" so... I think the answer you probably want is: go with the good and expensive stuff and do the work needed to make things fit and work right.

How many times could you have to replace the other stuff vs. "the good stuff's" effect to what you plan on doing.

Make sure your safety stuff is updated to match the effects of what you can do with... "the good stuff".

Lee

[Evil_Fiz]

Make sure your safety stuff is updated to match the effects of what you can do with... "the good stuff".

Lee

Spirited driving, as I define it, is driving at or just above the highway speed limit and clover leaf exits at just +-the posted speed. I want highway stability and fun handling. City driving = prudent and defensive driving. (No street racing for me, I got that out of my system many years ago.)

Other than upgraded and properly tuned/balanced brakes, a front air dam, 3-point seat belts, and all new or rebuilt "quality" steering components, what safety items should I also consider? I want to enjoy the car and survive to keep on doing so.

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Emil

[Ol'fogasaurus]

"Spirited driving" is an old term similar to what you said but at a bit higher level.

Good latches and hinges in the doors are one thing people forget about... until it is too late. The same with the seat latches on the floor and for the rear seat access.

The windshield in good shape minus the aging they get such as the wipers scratches and wear. Defrosters in good shape, the rear view and side mirrors in good shape and stay in the position wanted changeable with different drivers. The windshield water spread if not there is a good idea especially in dusty areas or the owner doesn't wash the vehicle much.

Steering box wear and mounting as well as the universal/connector. I had one car where the clutch mount would fall out every-so-often causing a 30 mile drive through town with a lot of stoplights and stop signs (a combination of old gaskets against the frame and the engine.

"Circular intersections" require turn signals to be used as the circular intersections basically are modified 4-way (plus) intersections and the driver's are still required to signal which turnout they will be approaching then using. Not done much now days but it is a potentially big safety thing.

Sometimes I wonder that a "gag" is required to be used by the passengers in the rear seats and I am not sure about the front seat passenger too .

Street driving it seems at times require more (safety) rules that racing usually does.

Lee

[Evil_Fiz]

Thanks for the tips. Everything you mentioned is either being rebuilt to OE specs or replaced with new quality parts. I also plan to add blind spot, front, and rear cameras.

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Emil

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I did mean for the post to come out silly (e.g., the camera thing) it is just stuff I had seen or had happen to me since the early 60's. It is easy to pass the simple, easy things up as they are so obvious they get missed.

I pretty much have stopped the black buggy build due to having problems figuring something necessarily needed for safety out (such as the cage and "cause and effect there). It is the "cause and effect" thing that is mostly what is stopping me. If I do one thing safely, then how do I do something else effected by it safely... things that I have seen fail (for me or others) over the years.

So many things come up to be done because of failure of other things. New designs come around because of either part, assembly or installation problems or a redesign comes and changes things upwards but needs some new backup.

That was one of my jobs for the 35+ years of part or assembly design and their presentation. The same with "what if" questions that often heads things in a different direction. I have also seen dialogue problems where body language can't be shown on "paper" or the words used have a different meaning elsewhere in the country or world.

Lee

[Ian Godfrey]

at the front I much prefer stock outer roller bearings and inner micarta bushes. parts 2, 3 and 73 in this diagram
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg ... cfm?type=1
these make the front suspension much more compliant than urethane. I think this important. at the front because there is so little weight up front.
for handling I'd add:
caster shims under the bottom beam (less wobbles and stronger centering of the steering and better turn in on corners) CHEAP AND EASY
camber eccentrics to so you can set your front camber to 1/2 or 1 deg negative, which improves cornering CHEAP
bigger sway bar, I think 19mm is good for the street.
good quality oil shocks like Koni NOT CHEAP but last a long time
at the back, urethane springplate bushes CHEAP, a light sway bar say 14mm (can be adapted from a 944) CHEAP, and matching Koni shocks to the front.
If you can find an early 944 or 924 at a wrecker get the rear torsions, the one to look for for your application are 23.5mm (same as a VW T3 squareback)
lastly an accurate wheel alignment, front 1 deg neg camber and 1/16" toe in, even (side to side) neg camber at the rear say 1.5 neg and 1/16" toe in as well.
it's all pretty cheap except the shocks, but a fair bit of labour
A KG set up like this will have terrific turn in and flat predictable cornering and be a blast to drive

[Ol'fogasaurus]

One other change, assuming you can find the parts, is converting to Thing (Type 181) lower spindles, the Type 181 lower BJs and the upper "Camber Adjuster". The "Camber" adjuster is the hard part to find from what I understand.

What you get that is different is the spindles lower arm is longer and fits under the arm. The lower Thing BJs connector faces down and goes through the spindle with the nut on the underside of the spindle. This conversion keeps the lower BJ, on hard hits, from pulling out of the arms. When we can find them, we use them off-road. It is the lower BJ setup what is the good thing to have even on the street.

I have this setup on my black buggy.

Lee

[Evil_Fiz]

Thank you both for your input.
I am planning on caster shims and a 19mm front sway bar. I will look into the thing and 924/944 bits as well. I also read a recent-ish (2017) post from FJCamper where he suggests the OE bearing setup for the front as well.
- Is it bad practice to rescue the OE bearings in the front? IF so, where can I get high quality bearings and Micarta bushings?

@Ian, I may hit you up on PM on The Samba for some tips, if that is OK with you. I am following your build and want to implement some of your choices.

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Emil

[Ian Godfrey]

PM away.
it's fine to reuse the front roller bearings, the tricky thing is getting them out to clean them without damaging them. You can make a 'floppy washer' puller that might do the trick. A while ago I got bearings from Wolfsberg West that were good quality.
one lower bearing for sale, https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2497759
and an upper https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds ... id=2606474

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Evil-Fitz just for the heck of it, with the OE symbol being so popular of a symbol I looked it up and got:

https://www.bing.com/search?q=oe&form=A ... e9&pc=LCTS

There is a lot of uses of that symbol, but I think one of the posts there said that there are over 600 things that that the "OE" symbol represents, and I suspect that is all over the world... maybe. Symbols for words or things are just one of the things I had to figure/research out when I was working.

Thanks for giving me something to break my boredom for a few seconds.

Lee