CB gen1 4 knob ECU
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CB gen1 4 knob ECU
I’m working on a CB performance built 2332 turbo FI motor that has been sitting for years. It has the old CB gen1 ecu with the 4 knobs.
I got it to the point where I can start it but it’s a mess.
Pops and dies etc. I made sure every sensor is connected correctly and fuel pressure is about 50 and drops down to 45 when running.
I know this is a dinosaur ecu but could really use some pointers on getting this guy running.
I have an upcoming dune trip in 2 weeks
Yeah I know but I have been working on this thing since sept.
Here are a couple pics of my ride
I got it to the point where I can start it but it’s a mess.
Pops and dies etc. I made sure every sensor is connected correctly and fuel pressure is about 50 and drops down to 45 when running.
I know this is a dinosaur ecu but could really use some pointers on getting this guy running.
I have an upcoming dune trip in 2 weeks
Yeah I know but I have been working on this thing since sept.
Here are a couple pics of my ride
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- Paul H
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
It needs to have a map loaded that is close to what you want with engine capacity and injector size - Maybe CB can still flash those things ?
Real parts=Real Performance-Get Real
Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance (Plato).
Opinion is the medium between knowledge and ignorance (Plato).
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- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:03 am
Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
It has a map loaded to this engine from CB. I finally got it running without popping. Now I just need to filler up with some Race gas and get her on the road to fine tune her.
- Lo Cash John
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- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 12:01 am
Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
How's it running?
My buddy Larry has a 4 knob kit he picked up for $100. I sent it to Mark at CB and he loaded a suitable tune on it and we'll be using it on a 2056 Type 4 engine with a TD04 turbo from a 2.0 Subaru WRX. Old, but fun a CHEAP!! HAHAHAHA!!!
My buddy Larry has a 4 knob kit he picked up for $100. I sent it to Mark at CB and he loaded a suitable tune on it and we'll be using it on a 2056 Type 4 engine with a TD04 turbo from a 2.0 Subaru WRX. Old, but fun a CHEAP!! HAHAHAHA!!!
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
Update:
ran pretty damn good in the parking lot at work. I filled up with race gas, Loaded up the sandrail and head for the dunes. after a 5 day dune trip the car never left camp. I could not get it to run without popping or stalling or backfiring. We checked spark and timing 24 degrees at 3K rpm) We checked fuel pressure. (50lbs and goes up as vacuum pulls from regulator) We checked that the injectors were spraying. We checked Valve Lash (zero lash, scat chromoly internals). We visually checked all hose connections and wire connections. The car has new plugs gapped at 35. (compufire DIS system) New 8mm wires. All new fuel line, and filters and walbro pump. We even did a compression check. 130 was the highest 124 was the lowest. We checked voltage (13.5 while running)The car will start and idle all day long without skipping a beat. You can rap the throttle while in neutral and it sounds great! As soon as you attempt to drive she falls on her face. It has a bad flat spot mid throttle that will stall the car out. I could not get it going fast enough to even build boost. It is pulling about 15lbs of vacuum while in neutral. after wrenching all weekend, I threw in the towel and rode passenger in my buddies RZR the last day.
ran pretty damn good in the parking lot at work. I filled up with race gas, Loaded up the sandrail and head for the dunes. after a 5 day dune trip the car never left camp. I could not get it to run without popping or stalling or backfiring. We checked spark and timing 24 degrees at 3K rpm) We checked fuel pressure. (50lbs and goes up as vacuum pulls from regulator) We checked that the injectors were spraying. We checked Valve Lash (zero lash, scat chromoly internals). We visually checked all hose connections and wire connections. The car has new plugs gapped at 35. (compufire DIS system) New 8mm wires. All new fuel line, and filters and walbro pump. We even did a compression check. 130 was the highest 124 was the lowest. We checked voltage (13.5 while running)The car will start and idle all day long without skipping a beat. You can rap the throttle while in neutral and it sounds great! As soon as you attempt to drive she falls on her face. It has a bad flat spot mid throttle that will stall the car out. I could not get it going fast enough to even build boost. It is pulling about 15lbs of vacuum while in neutral. after wrenching all weekend, I threw in the towel and rode passenger in my buddies RZR the last day.
- Lo Cash John
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- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 12:01 am
Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
When it started hitting the flat spot, what was the AFR?
And are you sure you have a proper tune loaded in the ECU? The knobs are just to "Fine tune" the base tune that's in the ECU. Mark told be the knobs can only make about a 20% change. I take that as meaning +/-10% for each function they effect. So if that system was originally mapped for a much milder engine, it's not going to deliver enough fuel on a bigger engine with better heads, cam, etc...
And are you sure you have a proper tune loaded in the ECU? The knobs are just to "Fine tune" the base tune that's in the ECU. Mark told be the knobs can only make about a 20% change. I take that as meaning +/-10% for each function they effect. So if that system was originally mapped for a much milder engine, it's not going to deliver enough fuel on a bigger engine with better heads, cam, etc...
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
unfortunately I do not have an AFR guage. This CB setup only has TPS, CHT, and MAP sensors. I added the normal oil temp, Vac/boost, tach, and oil pressure gauges. The ECU was originally mapped to this engine. This engine, ECU combo ran great on another car many years back. However it sat for years. I picked it up the whole car just for the engine and trans. I swapped it to my Sandrail Frame which was a 1915 NA looking to get more power.
any pointers would be great. I plan to recheck everything again.
any pointers would be great. I plan to recheck everything again.
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- Lo Cash John
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
The very first thing you need to do is invest in a good wideband AFR gauge setup. Without that you're just wasting time. Once that's installed you can begin to tune what you have.
Have ANY changes been made to the engine/turbo/injection from back when it used to run good until now? Bigger turbo? Different heads? Different cam? Different injectors? Anything at all?
You say it ran great on another car many years back. Did you own the car/engine back then or someone else?
If it needs to be re-mapped I believe Mark Lawless can still do that at CB Performance. They don't offer repairs but I think they can still test the units and re-map for a reasonable fee.
Have ANY changes been made to the engine/turbo/injection from back when it used to run good until now? Bigger turbo? Different heads? Different cam? Different injectors? Anything at all?
You say it ran great on another car many years back. Did you own the car/engine back then or someone else?
If it needs to be re-mapped I believe Mark Lawless can still do that at CB Performance. They don't offer repairs but I think they can still test the units and re-map for a reasonable fee.
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
The car belonged to my dad. It ran well but the frame was junk. Tons of power. He parked it and it sat for a very long time. No changed have been made at all since the original build was put together. This engine maybe has 20-30 hours on it max. It was more of a show off engine that putted around camp. I was the only one who really got on it. I will research an AFR setup as I have read its very important. I basically rewired the entire car and re plummed it too. I had it running really nice in the parking lot at work. I was able to pull 12-15lbs of boost and spin tires on 2nd and 3rd. It almost picked up the front wheels if the tires grabbed. Then at camp it wouldnt run
- Lo Cash John
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 12:01 am
Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
Ok, so you DID have it run good, pulls RPMs and make boost. Then at camp it was crap. Gotcha. Possible bad fuel? Junk in fuel clogging fuel filter injectors? That would do exactly what you describe.
You said you added "race gas" before camp. Going from pump gas to high lead fuel can sometimes require a different tune.
You said you added "race gas" before camp. Going from pump gas to high lead fuel can sometimes require a different tune.
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
The car ran good not great at work. Ontario CA. However it was not tuned. This was right after I had finished putting it all together. The original tune and wastegate spring installed was for race gas. I put 91 just to see if she ran. After I verified she was a runner. I drained the tank and put fresh race gas. It also has all new fuel pump, filters and fuel lines.
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
I pulled all 4 injectors. 1 had a pinched o-ring. And all 4 had a bit of sand surrounding them. I was thinking of replacing them rather than cleaning them with new o-rings. That leads to more questions smh....
injectors are 01D030B 42lb. These a high impedance injectors. I believe I read somewhere that CB ECU calls for low impedance injectors. These were the original injectors from many many years back. Anyone have any suggestions on what to swap them with? Same thing? or ????
injectors are 01D030B 42lb. These a high impedance injectors. I believe I read somewhere that CB ECU calls for low impedance injectors. These were the original injectors from many many years back. Anyone have any suggestions on what to swap them with? Same thing? or ????
- Lo Cash John
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 12:01 am
Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
You have a few options:
Send those injectors out to be cleaned and flow tested. Then you know they are all flowing correctly.
Replace those injectors with new. If the 4-knob ECU injector driver circuit is built for high z (z is symbol for impedance) injectors, then you MUST use high Z injectors or risk frying the driver circuit. If the driver circuit is built of low z injectors, then you can actually run either low or high z.
Clean the injectors yourself. There are plenty of videos online showing how to DIY this and do simple flow testing.
IF there is ANY sand on the inlet side of the injectors, this means you have a contaminated fuel system. Do yourself a favor and purge the fuel system, clean everything very carefully and then re-assemble.
For fuel filters (yes 2) you want a filter rated for 100 microns before the fuel pump then you want a 10 micron filter just before the first fuel rail. THe goal is to not let ANYTHING get to the injectors.
Send those injectors out to be cleaned and flow tested. Then you know they are all flowing correctly.
Replace those injectors with new. If the 4-knob ECU injector driver circuit is built for high z (z is symbol for impedance) injectors, then you MUST use high Z injectors or risk frying the driver circuit. If the driver circuit is built of low z injectors, then you can actually run either low or high z.
Clean the injectors yourself. There are plenty of videos online showing how to DIY this and do simple flow testing.
IF there is ANY sand on the inlet side of the injectors, this means you have a contaminated fuel system. Do yourself a favor and purge the fuel system, clean everything very carefully and then re-assemble.
For fuel filters (yes 2) you want a filter rated for 100 microns before the fuel pump then you want a 10 micron filter just before the first fuel rail. THe goal is to not let ANYTHING get to the injectors.
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Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
Thank you Lo Cash John. I greatly appreciate your help with this. I plan to replace the injectors today with the same exact ones. I found a local shop who carries them. They come flow tested and matched. I did put new filters and lines and cleaned out the tank prior. But I will disassemble and reinspect. I have a 10 micron pre pump and a 100 micron after. However...... during testing I did not have the filters connected. I was still in the process of trying to get her to fire up. working out the wire loom etc. All the original hoses and filters were filthy.
I will respond back with my results. again thanks for your help.
I will respond back with my results. again thanks for your help.
- Lo Cash John
- Posts: 1089
- Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 12:01 am
Re: CB gen1 4 knob ECU
One other thing I didn't ask about: Have you synced the throttle bodies? Just like dual carbs, the dual TB's must be synced for correct operation and smooth running. The absolute best way is with a 4-channel vacuum gauge like motorcycle mechanics use. In order to use this tool each TB or intake runner below it must have a small vacuum nipple. Basically you measure all 4 vacuum signals at once and adjust until all 4 are within 1-2" Hg at idle and slight throttle tip in.
Here are a couple of versions.
https://www.motosport.com/product/?cc=u ... -X001-Y001
Here are a couple of versions.
https://www.motosport.com/product/?cc=u ... -X001-Y001