MS type 4 in a fastback Type 3

[Bc28036]

Alright everyone, I need a little assistance on parts needed to pull this conversion off.

A little history first. I picked up my Fastback up about a year ago for a nice price. The PO built a 1955 Type 1 engine for it with 44 Webbers,etc, etc but as he puts it, "it made a bunch of noise and won't turn over now." He thinks it threw a rod, but my guess is it dropped a valve. I have not done the post mortem on the engine to see who was right. I have a spare 914 1.7L engine, came out of a Florida car the owner was doing an LS conversion on. It has intakes, plenum, TB, injectors and that is about it.

I was going to swap over the carbs from the Type 1 engine and run them but I have made the decision to scrap that plan. A megasquirt conversion seems straight forward enough I just can't find info on 2 important things before I get started.

1) Are there modern injectors that will fit the injector holes in the 914 manifolds. I am looking for ones that are common and available anywhere. Don't care if they Honda, Ford, chevy, etc. I am tired of searching for parts that are NLA, so rare that they cost a fortune, or made of chinesium and last about 2 weeks.

2) Is there a modern throttle body that will bolt up with minimal fabrication (making an adapter plate is fine). I have read that a jeep 2.5l is a good candidate but I have not been able to find someone that has actually used one and can testify to that.

Bonus question: As far as I can tell this is a stock 1.7l, I would be looking to do fuel and spark with the megasquirt. Wasted spark and batch fire will be fine with me. Planning on using GM sensors (available anywhere and reliable). Only future mods may be turbocharging, and it would be a while before I get to that. Should I go with MS 2v3 board or microsquirt?

Thanks for your help and input!

[Max Welton]

I used MS2 because it has the MAP on-board but a microsquirt would be weather-sealed I think. Plusses to both.

Max

[Bc28036]

I thought about that too but I am really leaning toward the microsquirt just because of the size and and it should do every thing I need (batch fire, wasted spark, etc). I am planning on using GM sensors anyway so it seems like a no brainer. Maybe you have some suggestions for throttle body (jeep, Ford, etc).

Alternately, i have been looking for the elusive Volvo TPS on the forums and would like to use it if I can ever find it's part number or what it came on. I found a part number and a list of Volvos that it was equipped on (from this site if I am not mistaken) but the pics of it don't show the correct input shaft hole (pics show it is round not half moon). What did you use on your car?

The other difficult to locate part is a modern injector that fits the injector holes on the factory manifold. Any suggestions. High impedance with a nice spray pattern would be awesome. I have the old injectors but no idea if they work and replacements are quite pricey.

[Max Welton]

What I did was to take a stock injector to the local wrecking yard and compare it to some modern injectors. Look at 4-cylinder engines making roughly the same HP as your type-4. I found that a 1st gen Ford Focus injector would work in my stock type-3 manifold. I did have to make some fuel rails. NBD.

Once you know what will fit, either buy some new injectors or send some old ones to https://injector-rehab.com/ .

I can't help you with TBs. My engine is type1/3, not type 4. I'm in the midst of a redesign and am going with ITBs this time.

Max

[Lanner]

I make an adapter for a volvo TPS to stock TB. Check my instagram.



I can probably make you the injector adapters that you press/jb weld into stock holes for regular 14mm injectors. Something like a mustang v8 ev6 injector will work well.

Lanner

[Bc28036]

Yep. I figured that a boneyard run was going to have to happen Max. Was just hoping that someone might have seen the posts and tell me what would fit. I like going to the junkyard but I always find too much stuff that I want, so I have to limit my visits...lol.

I have found that particular TPS Lanner, but I didn't think it would work/engage properly with the 1/2 moon shaft and round input on the TPS sensor. Obviously I have missed something. I take it that there must be some engagement nubs in the TPS sensor hole that work with the shaft. I might take you up on the injector adaptors if I strike out at the junkyard. I will let you know.

I will post up some pics of the engine, etc in the next week or so you all can see what I'm working with. I am pulling a boatload of OT at work so I can fund this and a couple of other things I have going on.
Thanks for the info so far!

[Max Welton]

I have found that particular TPS Lanner, but I didn't think it would work/engage properly with the 1/2 moon shaft and round input on the TPS sensor.

What I did for my type-3 was use some tubing and epoxy to make the TB shaft round and then create a flat where the Volvo TPS needed it. Made th adaptor out of a large washer.

20200604_093830.jpg

Max

[Max Welton]

I have found that particular TPS Lanner, but I didn't think it would work/engage properly with the 1/2 moon shaft and round input on the TPS sensor. Obviously I have missed something. I take it that there must be some engagement nubs in the TPS sensor hole that work with the shaft.

What I did was make the shaft round with a bit of tube and some epoxy, then Dremel a flat where the TPS needed it.

20200604_093830.jpg

[/quote]

[Michael1]

I make an adapter for a volvo TPS to stock TB. Check my instagram.



I can probably make you the injector adapters that you press/jb weld into stock holes for regular 14mm injectors. Something like a mustang v8 ev6 injector will work well.

Lanner

Hi, dou you have the Bosch partnumber for the TPS ?
Is it spring loaded?

[Max Welton]

I used a Bosch 0 280 122 001. It takes an 8mm D-shaped shaft. My type-3 shaft is about 6mm.

Not spring loaded.

https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-0280122001 ... B000UIOQT8

Max

[Piledriver]

Most injectors will fit, given you build a hold down for them.
I had CIS injectors in the factory injector holders using a drilled out valve keeper as the adapter.

I picked up some Yamaha 1100 jet ski TB sets, used the injectors and rails (cut rails in half welded on fittings) the spacing was perfect for a T4.

The 1700 will be a blast, it will make more power with all stock internals (assuming its the high compression 1700 from a 411/412 or 914) than an embarrasing % of "hot" t1s when properly injected/fired, mine went over 400K before I pulled it down for "funny" noises.
(thrust surface on cam bearing went mia)

I used Mikuni TPS's as thats what I had laying around. MS doesn't care. I do suggest a full ms so you can upgrade to ms3/ms3x.
Microsquirt is all it will ever be.

[Bc28036]

Ooooh! 400k would be sweet! Hell I'd settle for 150,000k considering I have no idea what exactly is in the case. The case is at least a Porsche case though and was originally 80 hp engine. I can't justify the MS right now....micro will gave to do until I get to upgrading it.....besides, I have more VWs than I can shake a stick at....it will get a home somewhere if I pull it off later.

[Clatter]

Can't wait to see how this turns out.
Type 4s are perfect for type 3s.

Still working on getting mine done and running on carbs,
but already doing homework on MS..


One easy thing would be to locate a later FI fuel tank,
if your car is an early one like mine..

Buried way in a 200-page miserably-long build thread are details of a type 4 in type 3,
Along with some 3d printed adaptor pieces, Porsche 5-speed, etc. FWIW.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... sc&start=0

[Max Welton]

In-tank FI pump:

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=150822

Max

[Bc28036]

Clatter, your car is light years ahead of mine.....mine looks a polished turd. A pretty poorly polished one at that. On a better note, I do have all of my MS stuff now.....except throttle body....still working out that last part. I have to fit the fan intake on the engine yet also. I have probably got it 40% done, I just need to get a day or so to sit down with the with the mig and finish it up. I should have some time in the next week or so to get some work done and I'll post up some pics.