First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

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Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

Hi.

I have a VW buggy that was home made in 2010.

I just got it today.

Runs and drives, brakes work, etc.

I plan to drive it in ORV parks, and maybe the dunes some times.

It was stamped with a VIN a few months ago, 3 year title.

Whats it take to make it street legal?

I am a long time mechanic, but I have never worked on a VW that was older than about 1995.

Where do I start?


Only rear brakes? Thats odd. Can I add front brakes? Why are the rear brake lines made of plastic?

What do those sensors do on the transmission?

Why is there some sort of oil leaking out of that hole in the front of the transmission?

Whats with the "pre-heater" pipes near the exhaust? Should I remove them?

The heater ducts are plugged, is that good or bad?

When checks should I do to keep from frying something? What fluids and where?

What octane fuel? 87?

Its a dual port I believe. What size motor?

No muffler? Its loud! Should I add one? Will a muffler reduce power?

Too big of rear tires? (33x12.50xR15LT)

No skid plated? Where do I get them, and do I need a roll cage for the engine?

The seats suck, what should I replace them with?

Shifter is too tall, I need it shorter.

Steering shaft is too long, how do people shorten them?

I plan to put foam padding on the bars, good plan?

It has a toggle switches to turn on the lights, ignition, starter, and alternator. What would be better?




I know that there is a lot of literature on the topic, but i would appreciate any input from you guys that have hands on experience with this stuff.

Thanks.
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Last edited by Noiro A. Buggyman on Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

If you are going to ride on the sand (where as"" it might make a difference) especially soft sand like on the Oregon Coast, the front tires can dig in and rip the steering wheel out of your hands and can do some dam(n)age. In areas of firmer sand I am not sure if the same thing happens.

Street legal depends on the State you will be driving in. Best to check there.

Heaters don't aren't often found on glass buggies or street rails.

Headers/tube pipes are a personal thing but what your pictures show is good.

You have a "short back rail" so adding a cage for the engine is a good idea. A skid plate is also a good idea.

"It has a toggle switches to turn on the lights, ignition, starter, and alternator. What would be better?" Toggle switches can be good but not for everything here.

(an opinion) Personally, I am not sure of the two pipes that join the front hoop to the rear hoop isn't going to do it's job well.

Shortening the steering, in my opinion, requires a inset tube (don't have the pix with me as I am down at the dunes right now) for the weld and the safety plug welding just prior to both ends of the inset tube.

A start but what I see looks like a good start.

Lee
Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

Thanks for the info.

What modifications would you make to the roll cage?

How do you prevent the steering problem in soft sand, a steering damper?

Do they sell cages for the engine? Should I just build one and weld/bolt it on?

Should I make my own skid plates? Do they sell them that bolt on?

If I'm going to be in wet conditions and mud, do I need to build some fenders and body panels ?

What are your thoughts on an electric winch? Too much extra weight for mountain and trail riding?

Does anyone ever put a "kicker motor" on these things - like a backup motor? A low geared chain drive 5HP motor with a centrifugal clutch. Just attach the chain, pull the cord, and your back on the road. Just something to get home with - at 3 MPH.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Noiro A. Buggyman wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:06 pm Thanks for the info.

What modifications would you make to the roll cage?

How do you prevent the steering problem in soft sand, a steering damper?

Do they sell cages for the engine? Should I just build one and weld/bolt it on?

Should I make my own skid plates? Do they sell them that bolt on?

If I'm going to be in wet conditions and mud, do I need to build some fenders and body panels ?

What are your thoughts on an electric winch? Too much extra weight for mountain and trail riding?

Does anyone ever put a "kicker motor" on these things - like a backup motor? A low geared chain drive 5HP motor with a centrifugal clutch. Just attach the chain, pull the cord, and your back on the road. Just something to get home with - at 3 MPH.
On the sand the recommendation is that the bars that join the A and B hoops should be about 4" above your head. The rear hoop should also be about that high. Reason, even on a slow roll the bars can dig into the sand making your head suspect to getting messed with and possibility damaging the neck or spine. The style you have make it easier for egress but don't add much strength while can be a big deal.

Dampeners don't really seem to work that well in this situation. Not heavy duty enough as they are basically just a light weight shock absorber.

On a short back rail I don't know if there is a commercial cage specially made for this situation but take some measurements and check with the commercial makers of the bolt on cages like for glass buggies and Baja's. These bolt onto the solid trans mount and connect to the shock towers.

Skid plates are fairly easy to build. Not sure if commercial ones are made. Leave an access hole for oil changes and maybe bend up the sides as stiffening flanges and maybe to help the skid plate from digging into the sand or dirt.

Motorcycle fenders can be made to fit your tires. Just make the mounting bracket that bolt to the bolts that holed the brakes on. Rear fenders often can be found from trailer manufactures. Look at hot rods, these are just suggestions as where to find them.

If you are going to use a winch then I would make it easily removable. Weight and the theft problems exist here.

Never heard of an auxiliary motor but that doesn't mean that it can't be done. Ride with friends and carry tow ropes.

Lee
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

On the cage thing I was talking about. I just took these as some ideas for you to think about.
DSCN1026 - Copy.JPG
DSCN1027 - Copy.JPG
Like yours this is a short back rail. Notice the location and shape of the tubes connecting the A-pillar and the B-pillar together. This is for easy access and while some run them closer together (I don't recommend but makes egress easier) or move them out to the bends. Harder egress but maybe safer.
DSCN1028 - Copy.JPG
This is my buggy. Notice the location of the tubes. Somewhat easier egress but the reason for their location is if you tip into a tree the driver/passenger have sooner protection.

Which ever way is best is up to you.

Lee
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Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

Thanks for clarifying with pics. I plan to add more re-inforcements and a metal roof, to strengthen the cage and keep rain out. Also thinking about adding thick plastic body panels, to keep mud off of the driver. Lamborghini style doors, with expanded steel windows would be cool. Max Max type of thing. I also want to add a switch panel and a heating system for the passengers. Onboard tool kit. Reserve fuel tank. How do I figure out what year VW these parts came from? I have no front brakes and I want to add some, but I dont have any idea what year range will work. Any ideas?
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

You have a king and link front beam which means 1965 and earlier. 1966 and later were ball-joint front beams.

IRS came in in 1969 with the change from dual spring plates to single spring plates ending some time in 1971 (there is a lot more here to eliminate certain things that can be done. Swing axle transaxles and rear suspension ended in 1968. The swing axle rear end has a limited travel potential with more wheel tip in and out than the later IRS during suspension travel has.

Brakes and pedal assy.'s are usually a mix but if you are going to have front and rear brakes then the MC size must be matching (a lot of discussion here... maybe). I gave you the years for the different suspensions which should help. Since you have an after market pedal assy you should be able to go to aftermarket VW places and check their use; e.g., brake MCs for discs or drum brakes, two or 4 wheel braking.

The sheet metal top and body I maybe can give hints on but I advise making patterns for where you want to cover. On the top I think you might need to stiffen up the sheet metal in any of several ways. The tube joining between the two hoops may need to be flat with a fill piece in-between then the pivots mounted on the center line of the tube for each door. You will need to add seals in the pivot areas and where the doors join the tubes. The shape of the door at the center tube might be a bugger to build but the middle tubes in your buggy are straighter than a lot of buggies I see (look at the green rail I just posted to see what I am talking about).

SINCE YOU ARE ENCLISING THE BODY YOU WILL ALSO WANT A GOOD REAR FIREWALL TO PROTECT YOU FROM THE FUEL AND EXHAUST GASSES AND REAR GLASS (air wind patterns around an enclosed body need to be taken into consideration).

Tool kits are often boxes (like/similar to ammo boxes) and are frequently located in the front passenger side.

Reserve fuel tank I have no idea as I never have seen or heard of one. A larger tank with an accurate fuel gauge is usually the fix.

Just a start!

Lee
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

I got thinking about what you want and I think it is going to be a big, and maybe expensive task. (In these posts I am talking very basic)

What state do you live in as it can make a difference. For instance, the last I checked the state I live in has at least two types of titles. One is an ownership title but does not necessary allow the car on the street. To be brief, it requires an inspection to show that you paid for everything and no stolen parts on it and it looks safe. The other type of title allows road use.

A hinge pivot for the doors are going to want to leak as they are basically just "piano hinges" and not as strong as I think one would think. Look at door hinges as this kind of design is probably something like you would need to do to allow the pivoted door to stand up for egress. You would also need a support system to keep it open when standing up. Both of these I think what I am saying is close to at least a minimum. Remember, in case of wreck the door might get into a bind and jam then where would you be (I know, still in the car but that was not the point :roll: :lol: ).

The long sifter looks to be either stock or an old HURST/EMPI shifter so shorter and reshaped ones are available. Need a better picture to tell.

Heaters: the exhaust you have looks to be a very good style for a buggy but changing over to heater ducts would/could limit performance. I have seen that type of exhaust system used on a rail but.... I wonder if an electric system might work once the bodywork is added.

The sensors on the tranny I am not sure about as I try not to play hard enough to dam(n)age the tranny. Not sure about the oil leak.

Engine oil: Zinc is not in most (if any) of the oils now days so with a solid lifter engine it needs to be added. Check to see the instructions for Zink additives for amounts.

1600ccs I think was pretty much the limit size on ACVW bug engines.

The plastic brake lines are often used on off-road only mostly in the sand. If you are going on the street I'd get rid of them. One of our group's rails has them and while they seem to work OK and asking suppliers about them I get and "eeeeeh" type of answer but then, again, this also is a "state" law kind of thing.

Talking about brakes, the e-brake thing is required so when you buy brakes get the capabilities. The in-line hydraulic e-brake is not DOT legal so don't think about it. The have a tendency to either "let go" (e.g., stop working and allow the car to roll) or to lock up to where you have to open up a slave cylinder to relieve the pressure.

Stock engines should be OK with 87 octane fuel. As you beef up the engine then the octane requirements can change.

Unless others want this to go on we could go off-line (PMs or emails, I don't text)

Lee
Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

Some more pics of the new buggy.

Any opinions on what the value is?

Came with the proper paperwork.

Also came with a complete spare motor, disassembled - and 2 spare front tires/wheels.


.
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Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

What can you tell me about the zink additives? What type and brand are the best value? Amazon?

Also, what weight and type of motor oil do people use?

What trans fluid?

Service intervals?


Also, what size tires should I run on the back. Currently 33x12.50R15 LT. Seems to be geared to high with that.
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

When my stepson with the short back buggy came in off the dunes today I had my commercial engine cage off my buggy so as he was cleaning off the sand I slid the commercial cage (https://www.jbugs.com/product/3105.html for example) under and up and it was only stopped by his exhaust. With the style of exhaust you have it should be no problem.

You can buy zinc additives: If you look up zinc additives for oil why this is what you get:

"Zinc has been a key additive constituent in hydraulic oils, as well as the majority of oil types, for decades. It primarily is used as an anti-wear agent or as an antioxidant. These zinc-based additives are sacrificial, which means they are used up and depleted as they do their job."

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=zi ... &FORM=IGRE

Again, where you are often dictates value of something. Where we are value can be very high vs. very low depending. I see more top end rails now days than I did 20 years ago so I am not up on values.

Rear tire size also depends on what you are doing. A lot of people use big tires to get lift/clearance but that affects gear ratios.

The shifter looks to be stock. Ok for some things but you can go aftermarket to go to a shorter throw or tighter shift pattern. On my black buggy I am currently playing with shifters (viewtopic.php?f=28&t=113703&start=1275).

Lee
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

I did a quick search on Craig's list for around here (Portland OR and north into Canada) and the bottom price for a running rail was $5000+ and a "you rebuild it" (and one glass buggy) was $2000+. Again, this is the expensive time of the year for toys.

I noticed the off-road sticker... where do/would you ride?

What carb is that. "Snot stock.

Were the seats mounted higher at one time hence the top bars mods and the longer shifter?

I would move the turning brakes to behind the shifter as when in front you have the shifter in the way and the handles are spread apart. One of the advantages to the two handle style of turning brake is you can semi-lightly pull on both at the same time to lock the diff so that it acts like a locker. Not something you would do all the time but if you got stuck you would have both wheels driving instead of one spinning and the other doing nothing.

Almost forgot. If you are going to drive in steep areas (up, down and to each side) I would recommend adding at least a 1 1/2 quart sump on the bottom of the engine. Not having one cost me an engine as it ran out of oil too many times on too many hills. Sometimes we learn the hard way.

Also run a oil pressure gauge not just an idiot light. The light takes too long to show problems and damage can be done before that. The gauge also shows problem long before even the pressure goes to zero.

Lee
Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

Good info. I will definitely reference it as the buggy mods continue.

I have not ridden the buggy anywhere yet. Just got it the other day.

I would like to find a buggy buddy to ride with, but I don't think there are many buggies around here. Just quads, jeeps, and dirt bikes.

Washington state.

Not sure about the carb. A friend said that when he raced VW's back in the 50's, that people didnt like these carbs, and that the main jet is too small from the factory. What would be a better carb?

Not sure about the seat height or anything.

It seems to run really well, and its fully functions - but the previous owner was not good at the little stuff. For instance, the throttle would stick wide open, the electrical switches are not done very well at all, the tire pressure was at 60 PSI, etc.

The battery would run dead, so he put a toggle switch on the alternator/generator to prevent that problem. Bad diode?

Can you send me a link to the larger sump?

Is it possible to add a limited slip or something to the diff?
Ol'fogasaurus
Posts: 17760
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:17 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Ol'fogasaurus »

Noiro A. Buggyman wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:20 pm Good info. I will definitely reference it as the buggy mods continue.

I have not ridden the buggy anywhere yet. Just got it the other day.

I would like to find a buggy buddy to ride with, but I don't think there are many buggies around here. Just quads, jeeps, and dirt bikes.

Washington state.

Not sure about the carb. A friend said that when he raced VW's back in the 50's, that people didnt like these carbs, and that the main jet is too small from the factory. What would be a better carb?

Not sure about the seat height or anything.

It seems to run really well, and its fully functions - but the previous owner was not good at the little stuff. For instance, the throttle would stick wide open, the electrical switches are not done very well at all, the tire pressure was at 60 PSI, etc.

The battery would run dead, so he put a toggle switch on the alternator/generator to prevent that problem. Bad diode?

Can you send me a link to the larger sump?

Is it possible to add a limited slip or something to the diff?
http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2018/67.html This shows the sumps. They are available at most ACVW sites.

We are from WA also, in the Seattle area. I thought you said something about Art (Clonebug) so I wondered.

For sand: Moses lake has sand as well as some place in the Tri-cities area which I have never been to.

Sand Lake near Tillamook Ore then down cy Florence OR and then down to the southern dunes in OR which is where we are right now.

There are off-road areas one near Monroe somewhere and there are a couple of others somewhere around there. I rode in the Peninsula years ago but not sure what is going on there now.

Carburation is often a personal thing just like anything else. Have a bad one then all of that series is bad. The carb must match the engine size and components.

The reason I asked about seat height was not only the top pieces of the cage but the height of the side bars on the rail. Nothing wrong just maybe a bit low for the seat. Personal preference on this one.

Electrical should be fairly simple to update. Push buttons and toggles should be OK but need to be properly wired and protected.

Not sure about the limited slip setup.

Check the tires sides for max air pressure. I wonder if there is a slight leak where the tire joins the rims.

Lee
Noiro A. Buggyman
Posts: 31
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:14 pm

Re: First time VW buggy owner. Lots of questions.

Post by Noiro A. Buggyman »

I think that the cage was made for a short person. If I was building it, I would have made the top part of the cage higher and I would have designed it a little differently. Perhaps I will modify it, but there are other things that are much higher on the priority list for now.

I'm up in the Marysville area. I have ridden dirt bikes, Go-karts and quads on the Peninsula, Walker Valley, Beverly dunes, Moses Dunes, Florence OR, Tahuya, Capitol forest, and a bunch of private land. This buggy is definitely the largest and most powerful buggy type of vehicle that I have owned, unless you count stuff like lifted K5 Blazers with Super Swampers.

I plan to get some nice switches and gauges. I can't live without an oil pressure and temperature gauge - on anything that I drive.
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