I have a stock 64 Type 1 with a 1200 (40hp) motor converted to 12V using a 6V starter housing with 12V internals (no mechanical alteration to bell housing). I am doing a complete mechanical restoration on this car with a goal of optimal dependability. The body/chassis are perfect having been restored in 2009.
The 6V transmission is OK but original and I want it like new. The restorer suggests replacing the transaxle with a rebuilt 67-68 unit with the 12V bell housing, which will accept a standard 12V starter. Clutch assembly will be replaced as well. His reason is that a 6V tranny will have to be modified for a 12V starter but a 67-68 tranny does not.
I could of course re-use the 6V/12V starter on a rebuilt 6V transaxle, but down the road if I have issues with that hybrid starter I may or may not have sourcing problems. Having a stock 12V starter is more inline with my "maximum dependability" goal.
Question: are there any compatibility issues between a 1200 40hp 6V motor and the later 12V transaxle?
Thanks all
12V transaxle to 6V motor match
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steveh
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12V transaxle to 6V motor match
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Marc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
A "6V" flywheel has 109 teeth, while 12V `wheels have 130. The way you are "converted" to 12V now, with the modified starter, means that you still have the 109-tooth flywheel (since a 6V pinion gear would never fit with the 130-tooth `wheel).
I applaud the idea of using a later transaxle since it's stronger; the ring & pinion ratio is 6% taller, however, which makes it a little "tall" for a stock 1200. Not prohibitively so (many folks don't realize that the final drive ratio of the "split-box" trans used with the 36HP engine was nearly as tall as that of the `67 through `72 boxes) but enough that you'll notice when launching up a hill.
You didn't specifically mention if you are aware that the flywheel needs to be replaced with a 130-tooth one for this operation. While 130-tooth `wheels which accept 180mm clutches exist, they are quite rare in the states; IMO you're better off anyway with the common 200mm version, the clutch is stronger without increased pedal pressure.
This brings us to the gist of the question. Assuming your 1200 was built using a 64mm crankshaft produced prior to mid`66, it will not be machined at the snout to accept an O-ring style flywheel - and ALL 130-tooth `wheels are O-ring.
You'll need to have the inside of the flywheel's I.D. opened up slightly so that it will fit over the "gasket-style" 40HP crankshaft. Needn't be done on a lathe, although that's the best way. It can be done by careful work with a die-grinder, avoiding nicking either the thrust surface or the mating surface if your hand should slip. The latter is easily protected by simply putting a steel gasket inside while you grind.
Endplay will still need to be set using the larger-I.D. "gasket-style" shims, and you'll need to use either a paper or metal gasket since even though the flywheel is O-ring style the crankshaft isn't so there isn't room for the O-ring. The paper gasket adds ~.008" to the "bare" endplay measurement and the (preferred) metal one adds ~.012", so you may find that even with three of the thickest shims you cannot achieve the desired .004" endplay. One solution is to machine the mating surface of the flywheel slightly, but that's really not needed - there's no reason why you cannot use four shims rather than three if necessary.
If your engine was rebuilt using an exchange crankshaft, there's a chance that it's of O-ring style. That was the norm for 1200s built after mid`66 for other markets, and a few regrinders will routinely make the modification when refinishing a crank. If this is the case you're in luck, an unmodified 130-tooth flywheel will go right on, using an O-ring. No need for a gasket, unless it's necessary to get the endplay right. One caveat, though - the endplay shims used should be the later style with a smaller I.D....if you use early large-I.D. shims on an O-ring crank they'll tend to sling around and slice into the crankshaft.
You're probably aware that the axles and tubes are longer on the `67 and `68 transaxles, you'll want to use the short ones for a restoration in order to retain stock track width.
I applaud the idea of using a later transaxle since it's stronger; the ring & pinion ratio is 6% taller, however, which makes it a little "tall" for a stock 1200. Not prohibitively so (many folks don't realize that the final drive ratio of the "split-box" trans used with the 36HP engine was nearly as tall as that of the `67 through `72 boxes) but enough that you'll notice when launching up a hill.
You didn't specifically mention if you are aware that the flywheel needs to be replaced with a 130-tooth one for this operation. While 130-tooth `wheels which accept 180mm clutches exist, they are quite rare in the states; IMO you're better off anyway with the common 200mm version, the clutch is stronger without increased pedal pressure.
This brings us to the gist of the question. Assuming your 1200 was built using a 64mm crankshaft produced prior to mid`66, it will not be machined at the snout to accept an O-ring style flywheel - and ALL 130-tooth `wheels are O-ring.
You'll need to have the inside of the flywheel's I.D. opened up slightly so that it will fit over the "gasket-style" 40HP crankshaft. Needn't be done on a lathe, although that's the best way. It can be done by careful work with a die-grinder, avoiding nicking either the thrust surface or the mating surface if your hand should slip. The latter is easily protected by simply putting a steel gasket inside while you grind.
Endplay will still need to be set using the larger-I.D. "gasket-style" shims, and you'll need to use either a paper or metal gasket since even though the flywheel is O-ring style the crankshaft isn't so there isn't room for the O-ring. The paper gasket adds ~.008" to the "bare" endplay measurement and the (preferred) metal one adds ~.012", so you may find that even with three of the thickest shims you cannot achieve the desired .004" endplay. One solution is to machine the mating surface of the flywheel slightly, but that's really not needed - there's no reason why you cannot use four shims rather than three if necessary.
If your engine was rebuilt using an exchange crankshaft, there's a chance that it's of O-ring style. That was the norm for 1200s built after mid`66 for other markets, and a few regrinders will routinely make the modification when refinishing a crank. If this is the case you're in luck, an unmodified 130-tooth flywheel will go right on, using an O-ring. No need for a gasket, unless it's necessary to get the endplay right. One caveat, though - the endplay shims used should be the later style with a smaller I.D....if you use early large-I.D. shims on an O-ring crank they'll tend to sling around and slice into the crankshaft.
You're probably aware that the axles and tubes are longer on the `67 and `68 transaxles, you'll want to use the short ones for a restoration in order to retain stock track width.
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steveh
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
Marc
I cannot thank you enough. How very nice of you to take all that time to educate a newbie. And I am a proud partner with you on the "enemies list"
That was a terrific post.
Steve
I cannot thank you enough. How very nice of you to take all that time to educate a newbie. And I am a proud partner with you on the "enemies list"
That was a terrific post.
Steve
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Marc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
One of the most-common performance problems with pre`67 Beetles is the inability to get more than 60-70% throttle due to slop in the accelerator pedal. You're past the point of ever getting 100 points in a car show by virtue of the 12V conversion, so I submit that while the car is down for transmission surgery you might want to address that issue.
In mid`66 VW changed from an accelerator pedal that hinged from the floorboard and used an "S-bar" to connect to the lever that pulls on the cable to a setup that hinges the pedal from an extension off the cluster casting. The later setup is a huge improvement but there are complications involved in fitting it to the earlier chassis (floorboard contour under the pedals and lateral location of the clutch tube inside the tunnel differ). You can fit a "roller pedal" like pre`58 cars had (or a similar aftermarket rollerskate wheel) to eliminate all of the monkey-motion of the S-bar deal, but if you want to have a real pedal there's a better way to go. You'll need a late casting and pedal (AutoStick parts will work for this and are nearly worthless otherwise so they can usually be acquired pretty cheap) into which you press the early pivot tube. The result is a cluster that has the best of both worlds, the early clutch & brake pedals and the late accelerator system with the stranded cable... no floorboard alterations are needed and it just works - you can get full throttle without dislocating your ankle.
In mid`66 VW changed from an accelerator pedal that hinged from the floorboard and used an "S-bar" to connect to the lever that pulls on the cable to a setup that hinges the pedal from an extension off the cluster casting. The later setup is a huge improvement but there are complications involved in fitting it to the earlier chassis (floorboard contour under the pedals and lateral location of the clutch tube inside the tunnel differ). You can fit a "roller pedal" like pre`58 cars had (or a similar aftermarket rollerskate wheel) to eliminate all of the monkey-motion of the S-bar deal, but if you want to have a real pedal there's a better way to go. You'll need a late casting and pedal (AutoStick parts will work for this and are nearly worthless otherwise so they can usually be acquired pretty cheap) into which you press the early pivot tube. The result is a cluster that has the best of both worlds, the early clutch & brake pedals and the late accelerator system with the stranded cable... no floorboard alterations are needed and it just works - you can get full throttle without dislocating your ankle.
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steveh
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
Thank you again for being so generous with your time and knowledge. I will try and find that cluster, but the 70% throttle is fine for what I use the car for....a few car nights, Sunday bagel run, etc. 50 mph is plenty with those brakes and nothing between the dash and the bumper!
The big decision is to maybe not replace the transaxle. My goal is to do everything to minimize the risk of getting stranded. But I sense that transaxles die slowly and make noises doing it, so maybe I should leave well enough alone.
Thanks again
Happy Holiday
Steve
The big decision is to maybe not replace the transaxle. My goal is to do everything to minimize the risk of getting stranded. But I sense that transaxles die slowly and make noises doing it, so maybe I should leave well enough alone.
Thanks again
Happy Holiday
Steve
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heliarc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
I've had other sorts of gearboxes go, and usually there's some kind of warning. However I also had one go that just went with no warning whatsoever. I managed to get home with it since somehow fifth gear worked and it was flat the rest of the way. I thought it was a linkage problem but the linkage was fine. I took it apart and all sorts of shrapnel came out. None of the cars were Beetles though. I guess my point is don't count on warnings to let you know something is amiss.
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steveh
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
I am willing to do whatever it takes to reach my optimal reliability goal. The owner who completed the restored the car in 2008 did a great job and recently advised me to leave the transaxle alone unless there were issues with it. It shifts smoothly, does not make threatening noises and does not jump out of gear. The shifter is sloppy but that's a couple of bushings, no doubt.
This will never be a "like new" car again, but I gather that of all the things that can suddenly leave you sitting at the side of the road, a failed transaxle that had no previous symptoms is an unlikely event. We are doing a full electrical wiring, re-do, a full fuel system restore, all cables, clutch, suspension items and brakes. I would be willing to spend the extra $ on a rebuilt transaxle but the consensus from those in the know is that if it works perfectly (it does), leave it alone.
This car was expensive (exactly 10X what I paid for my first brand new beetle; a 63 Ruby Red Type 1
). I knew how much work the previous owner had put into it. The cars that were maybe 4-5K less where nowhere as nice. But we don't use it as much because I worry by nature and keep thinking it will crap out. Two weeks ago it did. On the highway no less. Something went amiss with the starter (seems the pinion is stuck in the ring gear). I had stopped at an intersection, the car stalled, when I tried to restart it acted like a dead battery but the battery was new and charged. Starter just struggled and finally quit.
I told my wife that maybe I should get rid of it since we drive it maybe 200 miles a year, for the past four years. Cruise night or out to dinner. But my wife loves that car (named it Gretel) and said "Not!" So it's time to throw some more money at it. I was going to ship it to a well-respected shop in Colorado because East coast experienced air cooled mechanics are an endangered species if not nearly extinct. The guys with know how are mostly owners, but Vdub shops are nowhere to be found. Fortunately, I did find one through our local club and I have my fingers crossed.
This will never be a "like new" car again, but I gather that of all the things that can suddenly leave you sitting at the side of the road, a failed transaxle that had no previous symptoms is an unlikely event. We are doing a full electrical wiring, re-do, a full fuel system restore, all cables, clutch, suspension items and brakes. I would be willing to spend the extra $ on a rebuilt transaxle but the consensus from those in the know is that if it works perfectly (it does), leave it alone.
This car was expensive (exactly 10X what I paid for my first brand new beetle; a 63 Ruby Red Type 1
). I knew how much work the previous owner had put into it. The cars that were maybe 4-5K less where nowhere as nice. But we don't use it as much because I worry by nature and keep thinking it will crap out. Two weeks ago it did. On the highway no less. Something went amiss with the starter (seems the pinion is stuck in the ring gear). I had stopped at an intersection, the car stalled, when I tried to restart it acted like a dead battery but the battery was new and charged. Starter just struggled and finally quit. I told my wife that maybe I should get rid of it since we drive it maybe 200 miles a year, for the past four years. Cruise night or out to dinner. But my wife loves that car (named it Gretel) and said "Not!" So it's time to throw some more money at it. I was going to ship it to a well-respected shop in Colorado because East coast experienced air cooled mechanics are an endangered species if not nearly extinct. The guys with know how are mostly owners, but Vdub shops are nowhere to be found. Fortunately, I did find one through our local club and I have my fingers crossed.
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Last edited by steveh on Wed Nov 27, 2013 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
Most of the internal problems that a transaxle develops are indeed "progressive" so if it's working well and not making any strange noises you may as well drive it - it's hard to actually break one with a 1200. Some folks swear by switching to a synthetic lube, but that's rather spendy - I'd just make sure it's full, and consider changing it (with conventional lube) if it's really dirty or "metalflaked".
One of the worst things that can happen is for a special nut on the pinion shaft to come loose and start backing off. On later transaxles they made the nut "stakeable" to keep it from backing off, but on one like yours it's usually not tight after a couple hundred thousand miles and it's only a matter of time before it does start backing off. At first there are no symptoms other than a low growling sound as the pinion starts running out-of-mesh with the ring gear; over time it worsens to the point that the car will not back up because the gears are binding so badly, by which time the trans is beyond economical repair. Even if you hear a growl you can usually keep on driving for many more miles before tow-truck time; at 200mi/yr it may outlive us all.
As long as the shifter isn't moving fore & aft on its own in response to throttle application it probably is just a sloppy shiftrod bushing in the tunnel (if the shifter does row by itself check the front trans mount). `64 was the last year for the bonded-rubber shift coupler between the rod and the "hockey stick" going into the transmission; if they get old/oil-soaked they can develop a lot of play, and someday the rubber just gives up and the coupler separates, which can mess up your day. It's only a $20 part and not too hard to put in - there's an inspection cover under the back seat where you can look at it. If I had a pre`65 and it needed a new bushing up front (a not-very-fun job that requires extricating the shiftrod out the front of the pan & body) I would seriously consider getting a `65-`67 shiftrod and late-style coupler to update the car while I was at it. `68 and newer are too short, so only those three years work.
One of the worst things that can happen is for a special nut on the pinion shaft to come loose and start backing off. On later transaxles they made the nut "stakeable" to keep it from backing off, but on one like yours it's usually not tight after a couple hundred thousand miles and it's only a matter of time before it does start backing off. At first there are no symptoms other than a low growling sound as the pinion starts running out-of-mesh with the ring gear; over time it worsens to the point that the car will not back up because the gears are binding so badly, by which time the trans is beyond economical repair. Even if you hear a growl you can usually keep on driving for many more miles before tow-truck time; at 200mi/yr it may outlive us all.
As long as the shifter isn't moving fore & aft on its own in response to throttle application it probably is just a sloppy shiftrod bushing in the tunnel (if the shifter does row by itself check the front trans mount). `64 was the last year for the bonded-rubber shift coupler between the rod and the "hockey stick" going into the transmission; if they get old/oil-soaked they can develop a lot of play, and someday the rubber just gives up and the coupler separates, which can mess up your day. It's only a $20 part and not too hard to put in - there's an inspection cover under the back seat where you can look at it. If I had a pre`65 and it needed a new bushing up front (a not-very-fun job that requires extricating the shiftrod out the front of the pan & body) I would seriously consider getting a `65-`67 shiftrod and late-style coupler to update the car while I was at it. `68 and newer are too short, so only those three years work.
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steveh
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
Your brain data base on Vdubs is truly amazing. You should consider writing a book to get this all down. Thanks as always. If one were to use synthetic oil which one would that be?
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Marc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
Never use any lube, synthetic or not, that doesn't meet the The American Gear Manufacturers Association (AGMA) rating D-130. Differentials (like the final drive portion of an automatic transmission or the third member of a conventional drivetrain) do not contain synchro rings made of non-ferrous materials so they can use lubricants with a higher amount of extreme-pressure additives; problem is that when these additives break down into sulfurics which corrode the brass in the old transmissions' synchros. Generally this means you need to avoid GL-5 lubes and look for GL-4, but it's getting harder and harder to find. API GL-5/MT-1 is supposedly safe to use in old transmissions if GL-4 is unavailable - GL-4 is still produced, but not too many places bother to stock it anymore. CRC/Stalube still offers GL-4; NAPA and CarQuest have a GL-3/4/5 which should be fine too.
ASTM D-130 is normally run at 212ºF, but to make the test more severe AGMA increased the temperature to 250ºF. ASTM D-130 is used to determine the corrosiveness of a gear oil’s EP additive to nonferrous metals. A polished copper strip is immersed in the 250ºF oil bath for three hours and the EP additive corrosiveness is determined by comparing the strip against ASTM pre-rated strips.
ASTM rates the test strip as: 1 a or b; 2 a, b, c, d or e; 3 a or b; or 4 a, b, c or d.
Ratings of 1 a or 1 b are the least corrosive.
Now the short answer: If I was putting in a synthetic, it'd be Redline MT-90 GL-4 or Royal Purple Max-Gear 80w90 GL-4/GL-5. Royal Purple meets the GL-5 spec but their "Synslide" EP additive is non-corrosive so it's no threat to the VW synchros. Another choice would be Amsoil, I haven't used it myself but it's claimed to be safe for GL-4 applications.
It takes 5.3 pints to fill a dry transmission. With a swingaxle, as soon as you lift the rear off the ground the wheels go into positive camber which traps some lube in the axle tubes, in order to drain it completely you've got to throw some sandbags on the rear bumper and pull the drainplug with the car on the ground, or pull off the rear drums and wheel bearing seal retainers to let it run out the outer ends. If you don't drain it dry, it takes about 4.5 pints to refill.
Either way you'll need 2 quarts plus at least some of a third one. Expect to pay $6-$11 per quart for a good non-synthetic; synthetic's about $10 a quart more.
ASTM D-130 is normally run at 212ºF, but to make the test more severe AGMA increased the temperature to 250ºF. ASTM D-130 is used to determine the corrosiveness of a gear oil’s EP additive to nonferrous metals. A polished copper strip is immersed in the 250ºF oil bath for three hours and the EP additive corrosiveness is determined by comparing the strip against ASTM pre-rated strips.
ASTM rates the test strip as: 1 a or b; 2 a, b, c, d or e; 3 a or b; or 4 a, b, c or d.
Ratings of 1 a or 1 b are the least corrosive.
Now the short answer: If I was putting in a synthetic, it'd be Redline MT-90 GL-4 or Royal Purple Max-Gear 80w90 GL-4/GL-5. Royal Purple meets the GL-5 spec but their "Synslide" EP additive is non-corrosive so it's no threat to the VW synchros. Another choice would be Amsoil, I haven't used it myself but it's claimed to be safe for GL-4 applications.
It takes 5.3 pints to fill a dry transmission. With a swingaxle, as soon as you lift the rear off the ground the wheels go into positive camber which traps some lube in the axle tubes, in order to drain it completely you've got to throw some sandbags on the rear bumper and pull the drainplug with the car on the ground, or pull off the rear drums and wheel bearing seal retainers to let it run out the outer ends. If you don't drain it dry, it takes about 4.5 pints to refill.
Either way you'll need 2 quarts plus at least some of a third one. Expect to pay $6-$11 per quart for a good non-synthetic; synthetic's about $10 a quart more.
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steveh
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
I'll go with the short answer I was a history major back in the day and got an "F" in calculus my freshman year which ended any engineering aspirations.
I had an interesting tranny lube problem a few years back. If the car sat for a couple of weeks (as it often does) the shifter would lock up. I could not move it into any gear. Once the engine was started (in neutral) and warmed up (and the transmission started warming up) all would be fine. In five minutes off I went.
Once I left the car in first gear, nose to the garage wall and could not shift the car into neutral to start the engine (and save the garage wall from a front bumper assault). Keeping the clutch pedal down for five minutes was also not a good idea. My brain was at least engaged, and I got my floor jack under the chassis fork junction and raised the rear wheels. I started the motor and let the wheels spin merrily until the motor/transaxle warmed up so I could shift to neutral.
The happy ending was when I read an online Samba post addressing that very problem; the bottom line was to change the oil. I did that (quite a messy chore without a lift and a suitable pump). That solved the issue for good.
You gotta love Amazon.
If they don't have it it probably doesn't exist. Ordered 3 qts Redline MT-90 GL-4 and a handy pump gizmo. I would guess changing this oil every couple of years is good enough. I will never wear it out but assume time is the factor. It was more expensive than your guess but two-day shipping is free with Prime so it works about the same.
Would just standing on the back bumper (wheels on ground) while the oil drains do the trick of emptying the axle tubes ?
I was a history major back in the day and got an "F" in calculus my freshman year which ended any engineering aspirations. I had an interesting tranny lube problem a few years back. If the car sat for a couple of weeks (as it often does) the shifter would lock up. I could not move it into any gear. Once the engine was started (in neutral) and warmed up (and the transmission started warming up) all would be fine. In five minutes off I went.
Once I left the car in first gear, nose to the garage wall and could not shift the car into neutral to start the engine (and save the garage wall from a front bumper assault). Keeping the clutch pedal down for five minutes was also not a good idea. My brain was at least engaged, and I got my floor jack under the chassis fork junction and raised the rear wheels. I started the motor and let the wheels spin merrily until the motor/transaxle warmed up so I could shift to neutral.
The happy ending was when I read an online Samba post addressing that very problem; the bottom line was to change the oil. I did that (quite a messy chore without a lift and a suitable pump). That solved the issue for good.
You gotta love Amazon.
If they don't have it it probably doesn't exist. Ordered 3 qts Redline MT-90 GL-4 and a handy pump gizmo. I would guess changing this oil every couple of years is good enough. I will never wear it out but assume time is the factor. It was more expensive than your guess but two-day shipping is free with Prime so it works about the same.
Would just standing on the back bumper (wheels on ground) while the oil drains do the trick of emptying the axle tubes ?
Last edited by steveh on Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Marc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
I sounds like someone may have put 85-140W in that box, the scenario you describe isn't typical with 90W until the temperature gets well below freezing (BTDT when a roommate's car was blocking the driveway in southern Idaho at 50 below.) That sludge is going to need hours and hours to drain fully, I guess it depends upon how long you feel like standing on the bumpersteveh wrote:...Would just standing on the back bumper (wheels on ground) while the oil drains do the trick of emptying the axle tubes ?
Seriously. First make sure that the trans FILL plug will come out - don't want a drained trans and no way to refill it. Then loosen/back out the drain plug but do not remove it yet - that's easier to do with the car in the air. Drop it back on the ground and roll it back & forth with the suspension laden until the axles are lower at the trans than at the wheels, then drain the oil. If you have a couple of planks around to set the tires down onto that'll gain you a little room to reach under, and to place the drain pan. If you have a pair of jackstands, simply setting the car down with them supporting the axles by their outer castings should suffice...just exercise caution since changing the load on the suspension will also tilt the jackstands in and out, be sure they're stable before you crawl under.
If you go for a drive first the lube will warm up some and drain faster, but cozying a droplight with a 100W bulb up close to the trans case for a couple of hours will work as well (keep it away from the rubber boots). If it's cold outside leave the new lube in the house until it's time to put it in.
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steveh
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Transaxle Lube
Who knew changing a couple of pints of oil could be so intense! Since I did in fact change the oil about a year ago I did read up and was careful about not pulling the drain plugs before making sure the fill plug would turn. That was a challenge, but a well fitting hex key and a short heavy hammer got that all-important first twist going. I suspect this time will be easier because I purposely did not put much muscle behind the plugs when I replaced them. I also used jack stands but without that useful info you provided. I may have accidentally done the right thing. I never crawl under a car not supported by jack stands.
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steveh
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
Marc:
When I drain the transaxle and convert to that synthetic oil I just ordered, is there any issue with compatibility of the oild? Do I maybe need to "rinse" the transaxle sump in some way before dumping the good stuff into it?
When I drain the transaxle and convert to that synthetic oil I just ordered, is there any issue with compatibility of the oild? Do I maybe need to "rinse" the transaxle sump in some way before dumping the good stuff into it?
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Marc
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Re: 12V transaxle to 6V motor match
You certainly could rinse with kerosene, but then it would be critical to get it all out. More trouble than it's worth IMO.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, just do the best job of draining it that you can. It's not as though a little of the old stuff will create any strange new chemical compounds or anything, they're compatible "enough".
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it, just do the best job of draining it that you can. It's not as though a little of the old stuff will create any strange new chemical compounds or anything, they're compatible "enough".