throttle valve reverser dimensions for EJ2x engines

[mwebber]

Y'all,

I'm looking for anyone who has done the throttle reverse on a Bus. As seen below.



There is no one who current manufactures these in the USA. The Australian source has dried up, too. Only UK vendors remain for such a simple part. I'd like to measure up one of these and publish (Open, Creative Commons) the prints for this tube. Perhaps someone here in the USA, if they had good specs and prints to work from, might start making them if we make the information available.

M

[Prtexx]

They are simple to make but some years require a line added to reconnect the vaccum. What year bus are you working on? I've made 4 so far this year. The early busses require a short manifold to clear the deck. I made the this for the 64 but had to shorten it almost 2 inches.

[mwebber]

Is it possible to use the low-deck version for both early and late bus?

I'm presuming that the user might drill & tap the vac port themselves. Practical? This is part of The VolksarU Project, an Open Hardware / Open Design effort to define a standard configuration (or if necessary, minimum variations) for both off-the-shelf parts and engineering prints so that many more VW Bus owners may have some of these parts fabricated locally. This is a non-profit endeavor.

Also, as a fabricator, how much do you charge for your reversers?

Marshall

[Prtexx]

You can use the shorter version on both, I didn't realize how low the deck was on the early busses until I went to instal the manifold extension. I don't like modifying the body for the conversion and prefer to modify the parts if possible to fit the application. Have been doing them as part of the conversions and not selling any. Dont have any blueprints or drawings.

[Buggin_74]

Unless you live in a really cold climate you don't need to hook up those 2 small coolant lines that run through the throttle body.
Its only to stop the butterfly freezing and jamming and some Subi guys have found power increase by leaving them disconnected and keeping the TB cooler.

I never connected mine up but it doesnt get below freezing here.

[mwebber]

Yeah, the weather swings here can be pretty intense. Especially when you want to go out, turn the key and *MAGIC* it just works.

While we're on the topic, how much did you pay for your reverser? Also, are the early dual port exhaust manifolds 90-early96 compatible with the later dual port exhaust designs like the 99+ dual ports?

They only sell the late manifolds commonly here.

M

[Buggin_74]

If you are talking about my TB inverter I made it, not a bought one.
Was just a 180degree mandrel bend and I cut the flanges out of scrap steel.
I had to pie cut the bend though to clear the beetle decklid spring.


All EJ Subis use the same exhaust outlets on the heads except for the late 90s single port EJ22 that North America got.
Even the Turbo manifolds on N/A heads.
I've got 1992 EJ22 heads on mine but used the header from a 2000s EJ25 Impreza.

[mwebber]

This continues to be one of a hangups I run on to: When you've got the skills and the kit to get your flame on and weld something up that you need, you can achieve almost anything. Most of us don't.

Let's do a for-instance: If your mate down the lane needed to have the same piece welded up for him, how much would you charge him, parts & materials, AUD? How about if HE tells someone you're the magic man and a bloke you don't know offers to pay you to build one. How much then?

Obviously, shipping the products literally half way around the world isn't cost effective for something like this. But I'm curious.

Marshall

[panel]

Can you flip the intake manifold around?

[KR250]

Can you flip the intake manifold around?

You can reverse the manifold, looks like it just requires a little bit of work and clearing the alternator. Here's a thread on Nasioc:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... t=manifold

[Buggin_74]

Can you flip the intake manifold around?

You can reverse the manifold, looks like it just requires a little bit of work and clearing the alternator. Here's a thread on Nasioc:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... t=manifold

There's a bit of work in it, you have to relocate the alternator to one side, reroute the coolant lines for the IACV and the TB if you have one hooked up, sort out the smaller thermostat return hose (ends up on wrong side) and the wiring for the sensors needs lengthening.
You also can;t run A/C on most phase 1 engines if you flip the manifold due to the IACV being in the way of the compressor.

This continues to be one of a hangups I run on to: When you've got the skills and the kit to get your flame on and weld something up that you need, you can achieve almost anything. Most of us don't.

Let's do a for-instance: If your mate down the lane needed to have the same piece welded up for him, how much would you charge him, parts & materials, AUD? How about if HE tells someone you're the magic man and a bloke you don't know offers to pay you to build one. How much then?

Obviously, shipping the products literally half way around the world isn't cost effective for something like this. But I'm curious.

Marshall

My welding is fine for my own stuff but I wouldnt call it neat enough to build stuff and sell to other people.

[fezzic181]

I don't think he is trying to convince you to make them Buggin_74. He only wants an opinion on what one might expect to pay someone else to make said item. What he's trying to do is make a sticky for a guy that shows up here and wants to convert his bus. Said threads goal is to give an explanation of every step. So I guess maybe if you don't have a guess on price then a general description that someone could walk into say a muffler shop with and say make me one of these please. I got the impression he's done a conversion or two already but wants to think tank different steps to see if we can't refine and simplify them as a group. Or I could be totally missing the point /shrug

[Prtexx]

You are correct, from my converstaion I gathered he is looking for info on what one would charge to build or detailed drawings on how to build. I am in the US and I would think $100 to $125 would be a fair price. As for detailed drawings it's really simple I use the gasket as the pattern and cut the flange out of 1/4 flat plate, cut the big hole with a holesaw on the drill press and drill the 4 holes to match. As for the tubing use a piece of 2.5" aluminized exh tubing bent as much as possible at any muffler shop then trim it with a chop saw until you are satified with the fit. No special equipment needed. (assuming you have a welder) if not just have your local shop weld it up once you have the parts made. On some models you will have to add nipples or a line to connect the vacuum from the TB to the intake for the IAC to work correcetly (2001 2.5 US)

[mwebber]

You are correct, from my converstaion I gathered he is looking for info on what one would charge to build or detailed drawings on how to build. I am in the US and I would think $100 to $125 would be a fair price. As for detailed drawings it's really simple I use the gasket as the pattern and cut the flange out of 1/4 flat plate, cut the big hole with a holesaw on the drill press and drill the 4 holes to match. As for the tubing use a piece of 2.5" aluminized exh tubing bent as much as possible at any muffler shop then trim it with a chop saw until you are satified with the fit. No special equipment needed. (assuming you have a welder) if not just have your local shop weld it up once you have the parts made. On some models you will have to add nipples or a line to connect the vacuum from the TB to the intake for the IAC to work correcetly (2001 2.5 US)

You are perfectly correct! The idea is to produce an engineering print that says exactly what the dimensions of the piece are so that you can unroll it and say: "One of those" and there's no fussing over whether you were specific enough about the radius, or what diameter the bolt holes are and whether they are centered around the pipe. Just, "One of those."

To elaborate more on my 'grand diabolical plan': If parts that must be fabricated (like this) come to be standardized, this makes conversion more of a possibility for more Buses. Combine that with the ability to get either the stock or the labor from a local welder, it makes it possible for anyone to have one fabbed locally.

It is sort of like 3D printing in that respect: Someone in Darwin, Australia can design a widget and upload the file that tells a 3D printer how to make it. Users in LA, Tokyo, Cairo, or HERE (wherever 'here' is for you) can download that file, and if they have a 3D printer, fabricate the part. It still costs money (the ABS plastic isn't free. Neither is the printer. Or the time of fabricator, or the run-time on the machine.) But it is STANDARD and no matter where it is being printed it will be the same.

The same goes for distributing such an engineering doc. If you don't weld, you can have it made to spec. If you do weld, you can make it to spec and know it will fit. You can even work from standardized flanges and standardized piping sizes to speed or simplify the work. Less time for the fabricator to produce the same product to a higher quality of accuracy means more money for the fabricator. By offering the spec to anyone for free, more fabricators can get into the act and keep food on the table.

I know it is a little silly to suggest that such a small part and small job is some kind of tipping point for people in the fabrication biz. This is me dreaming out loud and starting small, with the goal that eventually we'll work up to a solution that anyone can do (if they have tools and skills) or can get as much local assistance as they need from local vendors to fill in the gaps that they can't do. Everyone benefits.

So, Prtexx: Many of the intakes I see have a cut halfway through the rotation where they've been rewelded. Yours doesn't. I presume that's because yours is being fabbed out of a single piece, like this:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Dynomax/289/42322/10002/-1?

I know the ceiling is lower on the earlier engine compartments, so the radius would have to be tight enough to fit in all potential situations. I also noticed that your last picture shows a pipe or bar that wraps around. What is that for?

Thanks again for your contributions.

Marshall

[mwebber]

Can you flip the intake manifold around?

You can reverse the manifold, looks like it just requires a little bit of work and clearing the alternator. Here's a thread on Nasioc:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... t=manifold

Yes, you can. Here's why I'm not crazy about that route:

1. It requires you to make special alterations in your wiring harness for the flipped injectors. If you're treating your car as 'completely custom' and you're doing the wiring loom work, I guess that's up to you. Me? I'd rather not have to futz with anything more than I need to "just 'cause."

2. When you carve up your bracketry to allow the manifold to flip, you remove any possibility of equipping your rig with Air Conditioning. If I've gone to all of the PITA to put a modern engine in my Bus, why would I want to remove any possibility of such an upgrade?

Marshall