acvw tin-swapping
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jimmy4wheels
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:27 pm
acvw tin-swapping
Collecting all kinds of tins for various longblocks. 2-part question: will 36 h.p. tins fit on an early 60's 40 h.p. long block?, and will late 60's-early 70's tins from a 1600 fit on a late 60's-early 70's 1500 (and vice-versa)? I ended up with some extra tins, in some of the deals, and no tins in some of the other deals. Just trying to complete the packages. Thanks, everbody for your input.
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Marc
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Re: acvw tin-swapping
1200cc engines (like the 36 and 40HP) are significantly narrower than the 13/15/1600s with a longer stroke - there's limited interchangeability between early`63 freshair tin and `66-up...the breast plate under the crank pulley mounts up to the case (but there are many variations of breastplate and rear tin - even if it fits, there are considerations like the road draft tube and carb warmair pickup pipe(s) to worry about - not every single year is unique, but nearly so.
Non-freshair (NFA) tin from older motors is all different underneath, and although 36HP and older look similar to NFA 40hp they do not interchange. The fan shrouds from the short-stroke engines are slightly narrower, but they can be generally be fit to the wider engines (especially if the latter are slightly narrower than stock due to having flycut the heads to raise compression). The thermostat system was changed from a restrictor ring at the fan inlet to a series of flaps at the bottom of the shroud c1965, but so few engines are still around with a functional t'stat system it's probably a moot point...there was also a "bastard" 1200 used in `60 Buses, mostly like most NFA 40s but with odd overcylinder tin and valve covers, but the odds are high against you having any of that tin since most of those engines were retired under recall in the early `60s.
The square undercylinder deflector plates, as well as the "sled" tin between case and freshair heater boxes and the rear deflector plates at #2 & 4 cylinders are wider on the 13/15/1600 engines too.
A few engines drew their carb warm air from a heater box, but generally it comes via a pickup tube (or tubes) that poke through oval holes in the rear deflector plates. Mostly a small single one the left through `66. `68 up had a large single one on the right, and the road draft tube got an S-bend in it to make room...so the `68-up RH rear deflector plates are cut away on both ends, with only about the middle third still there,
Other than in Buses and Type IIIs, the first 1500 was in `67 (most tin very similar to the `66 1300, but with small dual warmair tubes rather than a single one...first year of 12V, so the generator tin and pulley are different from those pieces except for late `66 1300 with the large-diameter 6V generator).
`68/`69 1500 and `70 1600SP are all very similar, with a single large warmair hose and a breastplate that's wider on the LH side, so the rear tin has a wider cutout on the left as well as the third large hole on the right for the warmair hose. The `70 fanshroud is the only SP one with a charcoal-canister purge hose nipple.
Of course you know that `71-up are 1600DP (at least in the US market) with totally different overcylinder tin and a different shroud/oil cooler sheetmetal configuration. You may not realize that the muffler was changed in `72 to reverse the preheat flow and make room for an EGR cooling coil (later a filter). That required a different warmair pickup tube with a tighter crook in it, suspended from a rear tin screw rather than from the lower stud on #2 exhaust flange. The `72 breast plate, although still wider than the pre`68 versions, was squared off on the LH side so the `68-`71 rear tin leaves a ~¾" gap if used with it.
Over the years several different setups were used to regulate the aircleaner intake temperature. First was a simple weighted-flap deal, then a cable linked to a lever extending from the RH t'stat flaps, then manifold vacuum (throttled by a temperature-controlled valve in the aircleaner), then a self-contained wax pill thermostat in the aircleaner and finally back to manifold vacuum again.
As you can see, there are a lot of little details to deal with when amassing the correct tin for a specific year engine, especially if it'll be using year-correct carburetion/emission controls.
Feel free to post pictures of any pieces you aren't sure about.
Non-freshair (NFA) tin from older motors is all different underneath, and although 36HP and older look similar to NFA 40hp they do not interchange. The fan shrouds from the short-stroke engines are slightly narrower, but they can be generally be fit to the wider engines (especially if the latter are slightly narrower than stock due to having flycut the heads to raise compression). The thermostat system was changed from a restrictor ring at the fan inlet to a series of flaps at the bottom of the shroud c1965, but so few engines are still around with a functional t'stat system it's probably a moot point...there was also a "bastard" 1200 used in `60 Buses, mostly like most NFA 40s but with odd overcylinder tin and valve covers, but the odds are high against you having any of that tin since most of those engines were retired under recall in the early `60s.
The square undercylinder deflector plates, as well as the "sled" tin between case and freshair heater boxes and the rear deflector plates at #2 & 4 cylinders are wider on the 13/15/1600 engines too.
A few engines drew their carb warm air from a heater box, but generally it comes via a pickup tube (or tubes) that poke through oval holes in the rear deflector plates. Mostly a small single one the left through `66. `68 up had a large single one on the right, and the road draft tube got an S-bend in it to make room...so the `68-up RH rear deflector plates are cut away on both ends, with only about the middle third still there,
Other than in Buses and Type IIIs, the first 1500 was in `67 (most tin very similar to the `66 1300, but with small dual warmair tubes rather than a single one...first year of 12V, so the generator tin and pulley are different from those pieces except for late `66 1300 with the large-diameter 6V generator).
`68/`69 1500 and `70 1600SP are all very similar, with a single large warmair hose and a breastplate that's wider on the LH side, so the rear tin has a wider cutout on the left as well as the third large hole on the right for the warmair hose. The `70 fanshroud is the only SP one with a charcoal-canister purge hose nipple.
Of course you know that `71-up are 1600DP (at least in the US market) with totally different overcylinder tin and a different shroud/oil cooler sheetmetal configuration. You may not realize that the muffler was changed in `72 to reverse the preheat flow and make room for an EGR cooling coil (later a filter). That required a different warmair pickup tube with a tighter crook in it, suspended from a rear tin screw rather than from the lower stud on #2 exhaust flange. The `72 breast plate, although still wider than the pre`68 versions, was squared off on the LH side so the `68-`71 rear tin leaves a ~¾" gap if used with it.
Over the years several different setups were used to regulate the aircleaner intake temperature. First was a simple weighted-flap deal, then a cable linked to a lever extending from the RH t'stat flaps, then manifold vacuum (throttled by a temperature-controlled valve in the aircleaner), then a self-contained wax pill thermostat in the aircleaner and finally back to manifold vacuum again.
As you can see, there are a lot of little details to deal with when amassing the correct tin for a specific year engine, especially if it'll be using year-correct carburetion/emission controls.
Feel free to post pictures of any pieces you aren't sure about.
Last edited by Marc on Tue Jan 08, 2013 8:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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jimmy4wheels
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:27 pm
Re: acvw tin-swapping
Holy Smoke, Marc. One could not possibly ask for a more thorough answer than what you gave. I have to digest it all, and go from there. I should NOT have any questions left over, after that. There is way more info than I expected, in your reply. Thank you for your time and the effort that you put into it. Should I have anymore questions on the subject, I will let you know. Thanks again...JIM.
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Marc
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- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
Re: acvw tin-swapping
Actually I did leave out some details, partly to keep from overwhelming you and partly 'cuz my memory's a little fuzzy and I can't run out to the garage to look at things/take pictures (I had a knee replaced yesterday, still at the hospital and a bit drugged).
Here's one fun little fact - although all 40HP (except the bastard) and 13/15/1600 valve covers will interchange, some need to have that little tab-with-a-hole-in-it on the rim trimmed to clear a hump in some head castings. The "DP" variety have a dimple near the top to hold the gasket up so it's less likely to suck in.
Here's one fun little fact - although all 40HP (except the bastard) and 13/15/1600 valve covers will interchange, some need to have that little tab-with-a-hole-in-it on the rim trimmed to clear a hump in some head castings. The "DP" variety have a dimple near the top to hold the gasket up so it's less likely to suck in.
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jimmy4wheels
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:27 pm
Re: acvw tin-swapping
Marc; what a trooper. In the hospital, on drugs and still at it. That's dedication. Thanks for the additional information. Hope that all goes well with the knee operation. A few years back, I had to have a Below Knee Amputation on my left leg. Long story, but my prosthetic of 5 years has allowed me more mobility and less pain than I had in the last 25 years. Work with it, go with the flow and things will work out. Keep the faith, and thanksagain for the additional information.