No fourth gear??

[misterman]

Hey everyone. I bought this bug, the guy said he disconnected 4th so his daughter wouldent drive too fast (in chevys there is 4-6 linkages involved in shifting) so i thought "no problem!!!" well after accesing the inspection plate i find 1 shaft haha uh oh... Is it possible to do this? Or is 4th gone? Trans whines and clunks into gear hard...reverse whines excessively and shifter commonly pops.

I saw the stickey of trans exploded view and i see 4th is like pluto, waay off in the "back" ..junkyard wants 100+30core.... Just get a junker?? What do u think?? I know VERY little about vws.

[Marc]

No, it's not possible to "disconnect" 4th gear - the dude's blowing smoke trying to explain away a broken transaxle. Reverse whine isn't necessarily ominous (there are 4 straight-cut gears involved) but "popping" is a bad thing, as is whining (check the fluid level!). Does it whine more in 1st & 2nd, or more in 3rd?
Popping out of which gear(s) and under what conditions? Does the shifter move fore & aft when you get on & off the gas? That indicates a bad (or at least loose) front mount - fixing that may cure the "popping out", but odds are it's too late for 4th. Tell us more about the clunking...again, it could be a front mount problem, or maybe the clutch is just dragging a bit - elaborate on the symptoms please.
What year is the car?

Junkyards operate on the philosophy that the trans in a wrecked car is perfect (after all, it was working well enough to make it to the scene of the accident, right?). Too much trouble as a rule to get a wrecked car roadworthy enough to actually test the trans, so they sell it with an exchange guarantee. That way YOU do all the work of installing it into your car...if it IS good, $100 ain't bad. If not, pull it back out and take it in to exchange for another, repeating as required. Doesn't cost them a dime, but you're out a day's labor each time. Do you feel lucky? If not, pay a little more to buy a trans from someone whose word you trust. The ultimate used-trans guarantee is if the seller is willing to at least help you pull it back out if it's no good - if he has some skin in the game he's less likely to lie...

[SANDFLEA]

Then go back and drop the old trans in that dudes yard at night.
And make sure it is totally full of oil. What an a$$.

[misterman]

Thanks for all the info.
It whines the most in 3rd. When in 4th it free spins and never catches. The clutch bite point is high.. And jerkey. Im sure the pedal needs new bushings and a good cable lube.. It dosent let out smooth, it like to jerk while slipping the clutch out... Everyonce and awhile the pedal will come out a little fast and ill hear a bang. And the shifter jumps. If thats a mount cool!

As for the poping... (goin into reverse) ill go down...feel the spring compress... Go left and down...release...and the stick will pop. Then pop again into what looks like neutral. But stays.in gear. It DOES NOT pop out of gear. Im conserned the shifter mechanism is worn due to people using it as a "H" pattern and not a slant "H" pattern.. Am i wrong? Could this b the cause of reverse being a pain??

Thanks again. Sorry for any typeos im on my phone and it dosent like this ccs code.

SANDFLEA: HAHAHAH!!!!"

where is the trans oil check? Is it a peep, nut hole over flow, or dip stick??

[Marc]

Long-distance diagnosis (worth exactly what you're paying for it) is that the mainshaft bearing is bad and you have a loose/shot front mount (wouldn't surprise me if the rear mounts are bad too). It's almost certain to be too late for anything short of a complete rebuild to fix 4th, though, so looks like you've got a 45MPH Bug.
Can't be sure from here but the "popping" sounds more like a relatively minor problem with the shifter itself (odds are the nylon bushing around the shiftrod inside the tunnel is bad too - not based upon your symptoms specifically, just saying that because it's a ubiquitous problem on Bugs which haven't received proper care).
Too early to speculate about potential clutch problems. Grab the crankshaft pulley and thrust it forward/backward as hard as you can. It should only move ~.005", just enough to make a perceptible light clunk...anything more indicates a serious engine problem. Still waiting to hear what year the car is; also tell us the engine ID (should be stamped in the case just below the generator pedestal).
You need to observe from behind the car while someone else lets out the clutch pedal in 1st/Reverse (brake on/wheels chocked please so they don't run your ass over). If the tailpipes lurch up & down more than just a little, the front mount has a problem. Get the rear of the car on stands and crawl under to view the front mount while a buddy reefs up & down on the engine (one hand on the muffler and one on the top of the fan shroud usually works). If the nuts holding the mount to the chassis or to the trans need tightening, snug 'em up. If the mount is visibly cracked or oil-soaked and gushy it'll need changing...and I'm not optimistic that this transmission is in good enough condition to warrant the considerable effort that requires without removing the engine and trans.

[misterman]

Thank you for all the tips. I will do it all tommorow in the afternoon when its cool and report my findings.

Its surposidly a 1973 standard beetle with 1600cc dual port. Says the vin tag. However he listed it as a super. It has torton front ends, spare straight up, narrow hood, all investigations says its NOT a mexican re-pop. But you guys are the experts. He provided me with tons of reciepts... Ive bought and sold cars so i know how u can get a lemon. This one i think just needs some loven. You talking about crank shaft end play makes me nervous, the pully wobbles quite a bit. Ill take more pics and try to mic the play if possible. Going to have to dust off the metric spanners! Haha!!!

Thanks again for all the info and patience. I really appreciate it. I will get back with results tommorow.

[misterman]

Thank you for all the tips. I will do it all tommorow in the afternoon when its cool and report my findings.

Its surposidly a 1973 standard beetle with 1600cc dual port. Says the vin tag. However he listed it as a super. It has torton front ends, spare straight up, narrow hood, all investigations says its NOT a mexican re-pop. But you guys are the experts. He provided me with tons of reciepts... Ive bought and sold cars so i know how u can get a lemon. This one i think just needs some loven. You talking about crank shaft end play makes me nervous, the pully wobbles quite a bit. Ill take more pics and try to mic the play if possible. Going to have to dust off the metric spanners! Haha!!!

Thanks again for all the info and patience. I really appreciate it. I will get back with results tommorow.

P.s. What makes you think its a main shaft bearing??

[SANDFLEA]

Def a standard and not a super.
He must of thought he would get more traffic if he called it a super.
When you say Wobbles - Is this something you see when it is running?

[Marc]

Noise in 3rd and the lack of 4th. When a mainshaft bearing gets sloppy the shaft has excessive endplay allowing the gears to move out of engagement with the operating sleeve ("slider"). Continued operation with it jumping out of gear eventually causes the total loss of the gear - every time it jumps out a little wear occurs to the synchro hub, and eventually it becomes so rounded-over it won't stay engaged at all.

A `73 Standard should have a VIN of 113xxxxxx while a Super would be 133xxxxxx. Very few Mexican Beetles were imported into this country legally due to onerous EPA/NHTSA and Customs regulations, so the paperwork may well not match - better look into this.

[misterman]

SANDFLEA: thank you, that sets aside alot of concern. Id rather own a standard for the ease of parts but a super for ease of spring rate adjustment.. But rather own a standard. Thankyou. the pullys wobble while running i thought it is due to a loose alt belt but i have slightly more than 1/2 in of play and alot if not all shims out. Im thinking its just an old main pully, (the grove is very pitted with rust)

MARC: the main pully has no visual play when i yank and pull on it, my mic wont guage it unless i dissassemble the pully and tin, but with my hands i feel no play. (in out,side side, twist in circle).

Im currently playing with it and doin what u mentioned.... Will have results by tonight...

Another question: should i be able to turn the motor over by the alt/gen pully? I can turn it over to compression stroke quickly, then slowly turn it past compression stroke with some effort.. Is this normal? Its not "easy" to do. But xan be done. How much psi should b considered normal? I will have my compression tester within a few weeks. And b able to provide numbers. Arent these motors like 6:5:1 ??

Thanks so much.

[Marc]

If you truly have a Mexican-spec motor it very well could have a C.R. that low in order to tolerate low-grade Pemex gas, but US-spec 1600DPs had 7.64:1 with flattops and ~7.4:1 with dished pistons. With a decent-condition, properly-adjusted belt (and without a chrome pulley) it's normal to feel significant resistance as TDC is approached, and to be able to rotate the crank from the generator pulley without having to squeeze the belt on a stock engine.
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=116553
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=140312


The reason I was concerned about the crankshaft endplay and engine ID was that I was thinking of the worst-case scenario - a P.O.S. worn-out `68/`69 H5 motor, with a crankshaft doing the dance of death in sloppy bearing bores and leaking oil all over the clutch disc. For now let's skip that thought and hope for the better...

[misterman]

Sorry for the late reply. Replaced the exhaust and broke a stud. 9hrs later it installed.

Heres the engine number: http://i48.tinypic.com/2pzcms6.jpg

Code reads a type 2?? Can any one decipher this? hah

[Marc]

The riveted tag with an ID number is a remanufactured VEGE MOTOREN engine that were marketed by ATK in the USA. The number on the tag may very well not correspond with anything that was originally(or still may be) under it.
5546 AD was VEGE's internal code for a 1600DP longblock (typically one with flat-top, rather than dished, pistons IIRC) and it may or may not have any relevance to the original case it was based upon.
When dealing with any mass-production longblock mill motor such as an ATK or GEX, you've got to especially alert for any weird dimensions. For example, the cam bearings could be oversized on the O.D. and/or undersized on the I.D.; the oil-pressure control plunger bores & pistons could be oversized. Heads will more often than not be welded-up garbage which should've stayed in the scrap barrel. You may find brass or aluminum patches pinned in place at the thrust surface or center main web in order to salvage a case that should've been melted down... these clowns were capable of almost anything - even turning only one or two crank journals undersized while leaving the rest alone.

Bottom line, BEWARE! It's always possible that an ATK motor was built on a sound core, incorporating accepted practices, but you're a fool if you count on it.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=140395