Ignition Only for Now Question

[Dale M.]

Thinking (again) of Megasquirt II in Ver 3 board and running ignition only (for now) ... Do I need CHT or Air Temp sensor or is Ignition Only pretty immune to everything but setting up advance curve and maybe MAP..

May sneak up on fuel side later.... Right now thinking on getting rid of 009 when I do engine freshen up in near future...

Dale

[Clonebug]

It's really simple to add those two sensors Dale,

Two wires each right to the 37 pin connector.

I am running both now but I really only use the IAT for the turbo to retard timing when the air gets too hot.

Coolant temp gauge would allow you to set up cold idle advance to help with a faster idle when warming up the engine. Otherwise there is probably not much use for it until FI. I'm using it as an oil temp gauge right now.

The Coolant sensor only cost me $14.95 at the local auto parts store. Wire harness with pigtail came from Mario.

[Dale M.]

It's really simple to add those two sensors Dale,

Two wires each right to the 37 pin connector.

I am running both now but I really only use the IAT for the turbo to retard timing when the air gets too hot.

Coolant temp gauge would allow you to set up cold idle advance to help with a faster idle when warming up the engine. Otherwise there is probably not much use for it until FI. I'm using it as an oil temp gauge right now.

The Coolant sensor only cost me $14.95 at the local auto parts store. Wire harness with pigtail came from Mario.

That is what I was actually looking to see......... Makes sense!

Dale

[Dale M.]

Also.... Can you run Tuners Studio while MS board is on STIM board....

(This must be my dumb question month)...

Dale

[subwoofer]

Absolutely.

[Dale M.]

Anybody used this "kit" yet.... Any opinions?

Dale

[billz60vw]

Come on dale stop talking about and get it done!
Fyi i went spark only at first! Sooo much better than a distributor.
What i did is buy ms2 v3 and jb perf driver http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html
And 95 jetta dizzy and went sequential! Works good! Since you gave me a good lead on those accel coils you can have my jixxer coils if you like pm me your address. I also have some ford coils that need boots you can have those too!

[Dale M.]

Come on dale stop talking about and get it done! :D
Fyi i went spark only at first! Sooo much better than a distributor.
What i did is buy ms2 v3 and jb perf driver http://jbperf.com/quad_ign_inj/index.html
And 95 jetta dizzy and went sequential! Works good! Since you gave me a good lead on those accel coils you can have my jixxer coils if you like pm me your address. I also have some ford coils that need boots you can have those too!

You are right of course.... But there are other pressing needs for car too, like new race tires.... When you have threads starting to show they really are not to keen on letting you on race course... And engine is in need or refresh... Been running for 4 years now (maybe even 5) without even having a head off.... But that being what it is it needs better heads than what is on it and I need to up CR a bit.... Need more horsepower and just new ignition is not going to be that much help....

Have to study the JBPerf board.... Looks good from the basics.... Megajolt has a "driver" board also the looks interesting (not as sophisticated as JBPerf board, but).....

http://www.autosportlabs.net/IgnitionDrivers#License

Dale

[billz60vw]

That mega jolt board is nice but the jb board also has injector drivers so when you are ready for fuel well you are ready also he is a good contributor to the ms forums and knows his s#%t !

[Piledriver]

Ok.... Brain went into "dumb" mode..... When using MS Extra on MS II with VER 3 board what is correct document to do assembly work with I want to go distributor less and direct fire of coils with wasted spark (No EDIS) ..

I keep going back to "Extra" sites and documented and it keeps referring me to MS I.... Am I missing something here.. What is defining item that determines what build document to use, it it the microprocessor?

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_ ... _Index.htm

Dale

Re: differences in the documentation for the various MS versions.

It depends on the microprocessor and firmware.

MS1/Ms1extra and MS2/Ms2 extra are all VERY different beasts, with day/night differences, different external wiring, internal wiring and capabilities.

Stay away from the original B&G "Megamanual" documentation unless you like confusion.

It has ~zero bearing on the MSExtra code, the only things useful there are the board schematics and some VERY basic discussion of how engines etc work, & basic assy instructions.

Once together, it has ~no use unless the document specifically says MS(x)extra, where (x) is what YOU have.
(What do you have??)

The Megamanual also can't help you going COP as the B&G basic code doesn't support it.
MS1 COP is different than MS2 COP wiring. Waste spark with COPs is also an option, and leaves more inputs/outputs free for sensors etc.

DIY autotune sells a similar unit to the ignition driver mentioned above, it's 4 Bosch ignition drivers and 4 resistors, potted in a block.

It's one method, and it works, esp. if the driver is near the coils and electrically isolated from the ECU.
I'd consider that on a motorcycle or off road ring, but if one dies, you get to replace the whole thing rather than a $2 part.

If I was going to spend $$$ to upgrade from MS1, spring the $200 and go MS3, rather than ~half that for far less capability.
The only way I'd go MS2 is if you can get a used MS2 CPU dirt cheap.

[Dale M.]

Oh giggles... Now I have to search out and find all the MS 2 EXTRA documentation...... There is so much data out there and seems to be so intermixed....

The plan (?) is MS2 on Ver 3 board with Extra...

Think I got it now... Middle of this page...

http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html#ms2

An have to run the Ver2 daughter board with C64 (?) processor. I guess that is what makes it MS II...

Think I have strayed form the path to many times, to many (mental) starts and stops....

Would be to ones advantage to get the MS III case (which is taller) and have the extra "space" to add another board to mount "stuff" to like the injector drivers (Bosch) and anything else that requires space for any other mods... Like tach out circuits and what knots... There is a second DB 37 mount space where all sorts of "things" could be wired through.... Even with the added DB 15 mount space....

Dale

[Piledriver]

The 2 MS2 setups I have (the one in the Square and the one currently on the bench) are in MS3 cases.
You have to fab one end up if you have a V1.01 or v2.2 board... V3x boards should bolt in std MS3 case.

If you buy the MS1 kit up front configured with the MS3 case it's ~$5 or so extra.

The extra room in the first unit allows space for an error* board, (I also have a 4 channel ignition and lowz inj driver mounted in an MS1 box, remote) the second has a MS3X, is running off an inexpensive MS2>MS3X adapter board being developed. A MS1>MS3X has been considered, due to the extra available IO.

This adapter would be primarily useful if you already have an MS2 and want to go sequential, zero wire jumpers, can plug straight into an unmodified MS mainboard (any version) if you clip some (not needed/wanted) pins on the adapter.

I reiterate--- I now would personally go directly to MS3/MS3X and LS2 coils if I was starting over, even if I had to buy it in bits over time. You will not NEED any external circuits with that, perhaps just a relay coil at the tach and coil drivers if not using smart coils.

[Dale M.]

STOP...You are screwing with my brain....

First why should I even consider MS1....

Next why would one have to flab up new end for MS 3 case.... Would not a "cover plate" to merely cover unused holes not be used....

Not sure I am even interested in sequential, really only considering wasted spark and bank fire injection (in future)... Trying to keep this system simple and workable... To much exotic "stuff" makes it very complicated if I'm having problems at track or some place where there is "pressure" to have car run proper....

Do not see need for Quad Spark(?) when I was thinking of only using 2 BOSCH coil driver with the wasted spark (and putting them on supplemental board in MS # case)..

And yes the idea of the MS 3 case was to have room for additional space for Coil drivers and a protp area for tach wiring and anything I needed to ass whrn I run out of space in standard MS2 case....

Concept was to order MS 2 [MS230-K] with MS 3 case, get stim board [MSStim22-K] (obviously needed) and the 18 inch pigtail [MSPiggy] because I was intendingd to do my own build up of putting ECU and relays and terminal strips (similar to relay board circuitry) on single aluminum plate...

Obviously will need to run EXTRA and "Spark A" and "Spark B" but do not see any heavy changes in original concept of how B&G first envisioned MS 2

http://www.mydune-buggy.com/forum/viewt ... f=28&t=414







And then go to CB Performance and get their 2092 trigger wheel kit...

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1884

OH well I really though I had "something" worked out... Was actually trying to crawl before I ran and just skipped over learning to walking....

Dale

[Piledriver]

As I said, you only need to make the end cover if you have an early mainboard.
(MS3 is "not supported" except on a V3 mainboard. In reality it doesn't care, just needs a cross-case holddown instead of bolting to the mainboard)

The main purpose of having external coil drivers (or "smart" coils) is to keep the powerful electrical noise the ignition creates out of/away from the ECU as much as possible.

MS3 has no internal ignition coil drivers by design, buffered logic outs only.

A MS1 CPU saves you ~90+ bucks, and is quite capable with the MS1-extra hires code.
It will do what you think you need adequately, and is well tested. It is a bit harder to set up than MS2, but not much.

A MS2 is +~$100 or so these days, and a MS3 is $200, +$80 if you want the MS3X + another ~80 for the second external harness.. It adds up, but it sounds like you are still saving up.
I'm NOT telling you not to go MS2--- I have 2 of them. (sneaking up on an MS3 CPU to go sequential+staged, I have everything else)

Just providing some advice so in 6 months you aren't selling the MS2 cheap to go Ms3.

The extra fancy features generally do not kick your ass, they were added as folks dicovered they were useful, even required for some apps, and allow it to idle/run/drive like a real car.
Much like TV, you do not have to turn them on.

I do suggest at least running semi-sequentil ---still technically batch, but same timing on all cylinders, something untimed does NOT guarantee--- No mods, just turn it on and play with the timing once the VE table is dialed in. It should probably be on by default.

Ignition and alternator noise/wiring/poor wiring/grounding practices and VR sensors/wiring is what usually causes folks headaches.

Good luck with whatever you decide, just trying to provide some insight.

[Dale M.]

OK... So I go with MS 1 (MS 1 Extra) and only thing I sacrifice is faster processor and actually put BOSCH coil drivers next to coil (figurative speaking) ....

As a side note, as of 06-10-12 ..

MS 2 (V. 03 board) is currently $278
MS 1 (V. 03 board) is currently $207

Net saving using MS1 is $71...

Later if upgrade from MS 1 to MS 2 (new daughter board) $111..

Dale