New Guy Help Needed

[PaulzOx]

Hi All,

I am new to VW's. I am looking to build a Street Legal mid-travel (at the max) Manx buggy. what i need help with is:

1) What should i start with a Bug (non super beetle) or Baja bug?

2) What should i look for when buy a used Bug or Baja Bug?

3) And any other useful advise?


Paul

[Stray Catalyst]

Welcome to the madness, Paul. If you're planning to build a Manx, you should probably start off with either a good donor car, or a Manx that's already built - it depends on your budget, your mechanical skills, and how quickly you want to be driving it. Where are you located? If you're in Florida, or on the Left Coast, you should have a lot of different cars available in your area. If you're in Alaska, New England, or anywhere else with winter, you're facing a challenge - either buy a local rustbucket, or ship a car from far away.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Here are some current and older builds to look at while deciding on what you are going to do. I omitted a few by accident or mistake but don’t forget to look at the Bajas also as there is a lot of information there also. Also look at the Baja builds that Centralwashingtonbaja (CWB), Hedrock, Turbobaja, and several other top end builders have made.


I posted this yesterday or the day before and it may be of some help with your decision; at least it is something to think about:

“The 14 1/4 to 14 1/2 wheel base (~95") does allow for longer suspension travel and not become quite as unmanageable.

W/longer travel you need to go longer in the wheel base. The newer 'glass buggies now have the fenders raised ~4" allowing for more travel w/o having the body lift. If you don't have the body lift you need to stiffen up the perimeter of the pan to keep body flex to a minimum.

If you plan on jumping your buggy some or some rough whoops and terrain at speed, then the pan needs to be reinforced as the tunnel can bend, usually by the front cross-piece or as mine did, start to crack at the e-brake hole.

As far as tube chassis goes, not convinced yet on round or rectangular tube as each has its own benefits. If you look at some build here like Central WA Baja, Hedrock, and a couple of others, the chassis and cage are quite complex and strong. I should have added: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=138615 and there are other commercial body and frame kits out there too.

Rectangular tubing has some benefits too. If you look at Berrien’s or John Barretts rectangular tube chassis you might get some ideas there.

Whichever way you go, be sure to tie the front beam and the rear of the chassis together and stiffen thing up.

For what its worth.

Lee”

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=138615

Some top end buggies.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=137824

Not a glass buggy but there is a lot of info on a top end buggy that you could use.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 3&t=127936

An active turbo build going on. A lot of info here.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=138730

Some cage info for a glass buggy.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=138550

A semi, but usable, buggy build that is recent.

This is a list of documented builds that came off the off-road list that Leatherneck compiled:

Hot Wheels (part 1): http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=104376

Hot Wheels (part 2): http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=117119

Ol’fogasaurus #1 (blue buggy): http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=105659

Ol’Fogasaurus #2 (black buggy): http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... lack+buggy

Pete Wood (pictures missing): http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=104588

Rexr: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... ht=#826570

Seabeebuggy:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=116351

TimberwolfII: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=123430

TMM 2.1: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=136598

Turbo Manx Mechanic: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 256#974256

zankat: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=119833

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Paul, I forgot to welcome to STF and I hope I didn't overload you with information. There is a lot of information collected in many different places and I gave you a lot to go through. There are several of us glass buggy owners on the Off-road forum which is where the Stickies’, post by different people some on builds and others on specific topics, that Leatherneck compiled. I went one step further and divided them up into rails, Baja's and Glass-bodied bodies.

STF is a very good source for information on VW's as a whole and it is divided up into different specialty compartments that overlap at times with information. Also, you are not limited to which forum you visit or post to. If you notice in the upper right hand area there is an option to View (all) new posts and another one for strings you have posted on.

Anyway, welcome aboard and let the posting begin. I almost forgot, a running joke in the Off-road Forum is that if you don't post a picture or two on something... it didn't happen. I hope you enjoy our company and continue to post.

Lee

[PaulzOx]

Lee,

thanks for all the info and the welcome. i am still working my way thru the links you posted.

Paul

[PaulzOx]

Can anyone give me some advice on what to look for when buying a bug to be the donor?

Paul

[Ol'fogasaurus]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/ ... id=1269759

This is an idea of what can be done. I don't recommend everything you see here but it is something to think about when building.

Lee

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Quote="PaulzOx"]Can anyone give me some advice on what to look for when buying a bug to be the donor?

Paul[/quote]

I'm sorry I missed this post for some reason.

Based on your list the first thing I would look at is the three combinations you have to deal with:

First generation bugs (I wouldn’t mess with Supers unless you plan on changing the frame head over to either a King and Link or a Ball-joint frame head) have King and link (K&L) front suspension and swing axle rear suspension. The K&L gives you the most travel potential w/o going to IFS… which is another option if you can do it yourself or have a wad of do-re-mi in you pocket jingling around.

In ’66 VW switched from K&L to ball-joint front beams. A good smooth suspension for the street and OK for off-road up to a point, the big problem is the built in limit of strength and travel by the ball-joint itself. The next two years continued to use the swing axle but there was an axle length change in ’68. As I understand it there are some other things about the ’68 than some people are not overjoyed with.

In ’69 VW went to IRS in the rear but still used the BJ front beam. The next few years, until the Super this basic suspension w/small changes was used.

The BJ suspension can be made to get somewhere between 6” and ~8”s of travel and there are “clearance” BJs that allow a bit more travel but it weakens them up even more. The other drawback is that the lower BJ is pressed in from the upper surface of the trailing arm which can cause the BJ to be pulled out on a hard hit. Also, the BJ beam does not have stops to limit the suspension travel. Both of these problems can be somewhat solved by: adding hook and pin suspension stops to the trailing arms and going to Thing (type 181) spindles. The spindles also add about 2 ½” to 3” of lift to the front of the buggy http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=136514. I have to get off my sorry butt and finish up this build as I still want to add adjusters for tuning the suspension and do the final welding of the hooks to the trailing arms.

The rear torsion tubes, as I understand it are pretty much the same with the exception of the IRS torsion tubes have the pivots for the rear trailing arms and the transaxle mounts (aka “pickle Forks”) are shaped different allowing for the use of CVs.







There are jigs out there that you can buy that will allow you to convert the swing axle rear torsion bar setup to IRS by installing a pivot for the trailing arms. You will also have to notch the “pickle Forks” to accommodate the CVs.

There are three torsion bar lengths and you have to use the matching spring plates.

’49 to ’59 used an intermediate 24 11/16” long bar as well as the ’69 to ’72 IRS beetles did, ’60 to ’68 used a shorter 21 ¾’ long bar and the ’73 and up uses a long bar that is 26 9/16” in length (I did not put in the type III information). Again, the appropriate trailing arms mush match the torsion bars.

As far as what to look for in a donor pan w/suspension I would look first to see that the title matches the number on the rear of the tunnel by the access hole to the shifter connection. No signs of changing the numbers stamped into the tunnel either. In some states the authorities frown on this and you can lose your project so be advised.

Look for the pan not being twisted (place a pair of jack stands under the rear torsion tube and under the front beam. If the jack stands are on pavement and the stands are at the same height then the jack stands should all come in contact with the two torsion tubes, front and rear.

Metal rot by the battery is not uncommon and pieces can be had for the formed area there. Rot in the floor boards around the door area or by the window are going to be harder to do. Remember, if you are going to go to a short body you will be pulling about 14 ½ inches of metal out of the rear of the car, behind the e-brake hole so some metal will have to be added here.

Also make sure that the tunnel is straight front to rear. Hard use can bend the tunnel so be aware.

The frame heads can be swapped between the K&L and the BJ pans and it can be fairly easy if you can weld.

The short bar can be used for tire combinations bigger than ~ 31” in dia.

Remember, once you shorten the pan you are just getting started. This is not to dissuade you on the project, just to make you aware that to get to the fun part (and they are a ton of fun… actually more line ~1500#s) there is going to be some work and heartache involved.

Lastly, there are 9 bolts per side to remove to get the body off. There are 4 bolts at the rear cross piece accessed from the inside of the car. In the front there are 4 more bolts accessed from under the car. In the rear fender area there is one bold and spacer per side to be removed. This and a friend or two will help you get the body off the pan.



A VW pan down to the basics

This is just a start but these are some of the things to consider.

Lee

[PaulzOx]

Thanks a lot Lee.
Your info is what I was looking for so I use it while shopping for a starting point.

I will keep you posted on what I find and my progress.

Paul

[Ol'fogasaurus]

You are welcome Paul.

I almost forgot, '60 and earlier swing axle cars have a split case transaxle which it not the strongest by any means; the restorers like to have them and for anything close to serious off-roading then you probably don't want it. Another expense!

Swing axle transaxle and dual side covers on IRS transaxles can be converted either way. On the early 6 volt cars the bell housing is smaller in diameter but can be relieved to allow the later 12v flywheel.

(Extra good stuff to look for) You will probably end up going to a later '71 dual port engine (the others will work but the dual port 1600 has better breathing). I would also go for a dual relief (oil relief. Look on the underside of the case and see if it has one or two large screw heads which cover the piston and springs for controlling oil pressure since it is not located in the oil pump) case also, not sure if it is '71 or '73 where they started to be available.

Lee

[PaulzOx]

Okay, I'm back with another question.

How can I tell by looking at a transmission if it does not have any axles, links, control arms or anything if it is IRS or SWING?

Paul

[Ol'fogasaurus]

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=102124

Try this, it shows both IRS (with flanges for the CVs at the ring and pinion) and swing axle transaxles

Lee

[PaulzOx]

Lee,

Thanks again for the info.

Paul

[PaulzOx]

Okay my buggy is getting close to being finished but I need a little more help/advice:

1) My 68 bug has 4 wheel disc brakes but no parking brake, how can I add one?

2) I'm trying to use the stock ignition switch but I think it is missing a piece because it falls into the column, any advice?

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ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416674546.078752.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1416674582.962370.jpg

[Piledriver]

Willwood sells small, reasonably priced mechanical parking brake calipers that can be mounted to the discs inboard (on a small disc mounted on an inner CV) or outboard by the std brake disc.

If you are only going to use it as a parking brake you can probably get by with one.

A different set of rear calipers with the built in parking brake feature may be had for about the same price though.

Not sure what rear brake setup you have, but the MK4 Passat setup (same calipers as a Golf/Jetta, different mount) are good, common, and cheap.