Replacement tire question, 1967 bug

[landrocket]

I have 165/15 on there now and wondered if 195/65R15 would fit ? Looking for a little more meat for the winter in Denver. Thx, Ron

[Marc]

If they're the stock rims they're only 4" wide, at least 1½" narrower than recommended for a 195. There really isn't any wider tire (a 165 is already pushing it) that's a proper fit on 4" rims.

This advice invariably elicits responses like "I run 205/60-15s on 4" rims and they fit just fine".
They don't. Let's not waste bandwidth debating it this time.

http://www.yokohamatire.com/tires_101/c ... eel_width/
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=136660

[crvc]

I drove my '67 with stock tires all of last winter. I live in Wyoming where it's colder, windier and has a longer winter than Colorado. Last winter someone suggested dropping the front psi to roughly 20 and keeping 30 for the rear. I did that and and had no problem with ice and snow while driving the interstate. Although I wish I could have kept up with all the semi traffic.

kevin

[Marc]

Kevin raises a good point, on a car this light it may actually be counterproductive to fit wider tires - a wider footprint means fewer pounds per square inch at the contact patch.
Obviously you'd benefit from a more-aggressive tread pattern in the snow, but many of these are worse on bare/wet surfaces. Your local tire retailers should have a better idea of what works best there than I can speculate about from Seattle.
Don't know if you ever have to run chains, but there's not a great deal of fender clearance on a `67 with stock wheels...if you decide to get some wider rims keep that in mind and make sure the added width is mostly to the inside (at least for the rear). Stock 4" rims have a 40mm offset, so you'd want 5½" rims with as much as you could get. 1½"=38mm, so it'd take ET78 to keep the outer sidewall where it is; ET55 is more common, with those you'd lose almost an inch of fender clearance.

[crvc]

What about studded tires? I have two sets of stock tires and thought about adding studs to have a 'winter pair'.

kevin

[landrocket]

Wow! thx for the fast replies. Good point about the contact surface. Guess I will stay stock and get them studded. Anybody know anything about sipping tires?

[Marc]

Les Schwab stores still do siping I believe...they can probably put studs in snowtires too, if they're studdable and don't have too many miles on them.
I can't attest to the efficacy of siping, but I sure do like studded tires on the rear in snow/ice (we get more of the latter here). Once in a great while we get a few days that're bad enough to warrant running studs on the front, too, but you don't really want them on bare/wet pavement.

[landrocket]

I will probably just get new stock tires and have them siped. Denver gets alot of dry pavement days in the winter.

[Jim Ed]

I will probably just get new stock tires and have them siped. Denver gets alot of dry pavement days in the winter.

If you want 165/15's, you will probably have to order them online.

[landrocket]

Discount Tire has 165/80R15 on their website for 65.00 a tire (KUMHO brand). Have not stopped by to take a look at them, never heard of the brand, either.

[ALYKAT III]

Kumho makes (and has made for some time) a very decent tire. They make truck as well as passenger car and racing tires. I have been very satisfied them. Check out tireack.com for price comparison.

[Marc]

Note that 165/80-15 is not the original size. When no aspect ratio is mentioned on metric-sized tires, it can be assumed to be around 83. I've seen really old 165-15s which were even taller than that, but those from the `70s were typically ~83 aspect ratio, which is about 26¾" tall.
165/80-15s are about 25½" tall, which is ~5% shorter. "True" 165-15s are still available but only for a premium price, most folks are content with a 5% speedometer error for the lower cost of the 165/80-15s.

[surfbeetle]

195/65R15 are about the same height but they are wider. Years ago, I got 5.5 inch wide chromies and had 185 60 15 on there. Then when I went to replace them, that size was not available so they sold me 195/65R15s. On the rear, they stuck out past the fenders a little under an inch on my 67 with drum brakes and long axle, short spline.

[aussiebug]

crvc mentioned above about "dropping the front tire pressure to about 20 PSI". So what are you running them at normally? the VW recommended pressures are 18psi front and 26psi rear with a full load - 1psi less if lightly loaded. The front end of the bug is very light and running tyres at 30psi or so (similar to modern cars) provides a very harsh ride and poor handling. Front tyres running overinflated will also lead to more wear on the centre of the tread.

From 40 years of experience driving bugs, 20psi front and 28 psi rear gives an excellent compromise between handling, tyre life and ride comfort (manufacturers usually err on the side of comfort and recommend fractionally lower pressures than ideal).

The VW was originally designed with a lot of military thinking in mind (Hitler gave the go-ahead for the bug , which he called it the KDF wagon, in 1936 - when he was gearing up for war). It had skinny 16 inch wheels and a very long suspension travel (which it still has) as it was designed so it would work as a light staff car for the military - good for both sealed roads and muddy war torn areas. The engine weight over the driving wheels helps push the rear down to get grip. Skinny tyres will cut down through snow and mud better than wide soft tyres, so going for wider tyres for snowy conditions might be counter-productive. Many years ago I got caught in snowy conditions without chains and my bug was the only car cruising gently down the road (with completely ordinary 165SR15 Michelin X tyres) - all the other cars without chains were stopped or sliding off into the ditches.

Marc is quite right (as he usually is) about the tire sizes. The 165SR15s which were available in the 70s were 82 profile, so the current 165/80/15s are not quite as tall. The 82 profile will give about 785 revs per mile where the 80 profile gives about 794 revs per mile - your speedo will overread a little on the 80 profile tyres. 175/80/15 (if you can get them) are the same height as the 165SR15s of old. But you would not want to use 175 wide tyres on the older 4" rims as they will tend to roll under in heavy cornering - they are OK on the 4.5" VW rims though.

And as ALYKAT says - Kuhmo has been making very good tyres for a long time - here in Aus they are a very popular brand.

[Jim Ed]

I have 165/15 on there now and wondered if 195/65R15 would fit ? Looking for a little more meat for the winter in Denver. Thx, Ron

You'll need 5.5 inch width rims. I heard they won't fit on a Super Beetle because of the struts.