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Trouble shooting my custom hazard/turn signal light circuit

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:18 am
by Yellowbugmonster
I'm doing my head in trying to trouble shoot my hazard/turn signal wiring circuit. This is the diagram I came up with to run off a typical DPST (on-on) toggle switch.

It's meant to operate like this:
When the hazard switch is on, it fires the relays to form a pathway that joins both sides of the car into one circuit to flash all four lights, then when it's turned off, it isolates the left and right sides, so that the turn indicator works (instead of lighting all four lamps off the indicator stalk).

Image

Or here's a link if the image doesn't work: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p79/ ... iagram.jpg
(Although it's not shown on the diagram, both power supplies to the switch are fused)

First off, can anyone see if I've made a mistake in my design, or can you see why this wouldn't work? I think I can eliminate one of the relays at the bottom without affecting the outcome of the circuit, but I don't think that would be causing my problem.

I wired it all up today, double checked all the connections were running to the right places and then turned it on. Popped the fuse. Then spent hours popping fuses trying to trouble shoot, but no joy. Occasionally one or the other side of the car would work (fast) but the other side would pop the fuse, as would the hazard switch.

In frustration I put together an electrically identical rig outside the car to check the flasher was working (in case I had a short in the car somewhere). First I rigged it to my two (21W) tail lights and all was good - flashy flashy. Then tied in my two front indicators, one to each tail light, (these are actually side repeaters and only 5w I think). Somehow it fried my flasher relay :evil:

This is the electronic flasher relay I'm using (RFL5 part way down the page):
http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... ashers.php

Now I can't think of what to do next? What am I doing wrong? :?
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

(By the way, I'm in the UK, which has different stop/turn lighting laws to the US. We have separate amber lights at each corner rather than the red stop/turn setup you have on cars in the US)

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:39 am
by Piledriver
As to why it blows fuses in the car and not on the test bench, pull all the bulbs and see if it still blows... Bulbs (and sockets) can be bad.

Check the ckt in the car with an ohmmeter with the bulbs out...

Nice trick with the relays.

The other possibility is that you didn't ...quite get the car wired the same way as the (working) bench setup.

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:54 am
by Speedy Jim
Try this.

I flipped the Toggle sw over.
Each relay connects one side to the Flasher for Hazards.

Image


Speedy Jim
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:19 am
by 2088 bob
Jim would it be possible to give the pin numbers on the flasher switch please ,and the flasher is just a 3 pin with 49,49a , 31 correct

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 9:46 am
by Speedy Jim
The numbers YellowBug has on his dwg are correct for 49, 49a, 31.
This is an aftermarket flasher and "C" provides a pilot output.

If using an original VW flasher, the pilot light goes from fused (+) to 49a.

More about flasher circuits on this page of my web site:
http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/elec.htm

(Hope I read your question correctly...)

Jim

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:24 am
by Yellowbugmonster
I think you're right Piledriver that I messed up on the car install since it worked ok on the test bench. Serves me right for wiring the car when I was frustrated and tired!

Thanks SpeedyJim, flipping the switch is a smart twist on the design. I'd never have thought of it. I'll definitely be doing that!

I'll not be able to try out your suggestions until Friday, but I'll let you know how I get on. Thanks for all your help!

Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:13 pm
by Piledriver
Speedy Jim--- I think you meant this page:
(This is also Jims)

http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/htm/signals.htm

Awesome resource, Jim.

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:18 pm
by Yellowbugmonster
Hi guys,

I put the harness together like in Jim's diagram, but something odd happened.

Every time the hazard switch is turned on, my fuse blows. With the ignition turned on, the flasher relay begins constantly pulsing. I can select the indicators now and both left and right sides will flash. But when the switch is set again to neutral, the flasher keeps pulsing.

I took the bulbs out and checked for shorts to earth, but I didn't find any.

I know I must be missing something obvious. Any ideas what it might be?

Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:49 pm
by Speedy Jim
For the pulsing, unplug the 2 relays. See if that stops it. If so, something is mis-wired to the relays. With the relays removed, you should be able to Indicate Left or Right.

Double check the relay wiring against the pinout I put on the dwg.

Jim

Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 1:07 am
by Yellowbugmonster
Thanks Jim, I'll check it out

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 2:27 pm
by Yellowbugmonster
Hi Jim,

I got some more time in on my wiring today and did like you said, removing the relays and just running the flasher off the indicator switch. Long story short, it meant I found the problem. I'd wired the relays bad. So now it all works! Couldn't have done it without your help, thanks so much!

David

Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:58 pm
by Speedy Jim
Good job.

I made a bunch of bad wiring mistakes today, so you're in good company.
:wink: