Kadrons?
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Kadrons?
Pals....i got a set of Kadrons/Solex for free in fairly good condition. Are these carbs any good and easy to tune? It's printed 40/44 on them...so what size are these carbs? Thanks
- Marc
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I'm headed to bed right now so I'm not up to researching all of the facts at the moment, but as I recall these H40/44EIS Solex carbs were originally intended for use on some Brazilian GM & Ford cars, and someone came up with the idea of fitting a pair of them to an obscure VW sportscar (Puma?). The Kadron company started producing kits (carbs, manifolds, aircleaners, linkage, fuel-line splitters) around the same time - not sure at the moment which came first. Since then others, notably EMPI, have offered kits using the same basic carburetors..but the original "Kadron" name stuck and that's what most folks in the VW community continue to refer to them as. Kadron also produced some especially horrid exhaust systems back in the day - nobody has reproduced those (I hope).
What motor would you be using them on? They're a little too big IMO for a stock 1600 (although they'll work on one). Once the initial setup is dialed in - usually just a matter of getting the linkage mechanically synchronized so that both carbs hit idle and full-throttle simultaneously - they're pretty trouble-free. Like any dual 1-bbl setup there's a tendency for #1 and #3 to run a bit richer than #2 and #4 at low speed (nothing you can do about that, it's due to the firing order and the inertia of the air/fuel mix) so idle mixture settings are a compromise. Running-on ("dieseling") is also sometimes an issue...some learn to live with it by selecting 4th gear just before switching off and dumping the clutch if it starts to diesel; it's also possible to fit an electromagnetic idle jet - on one side, anyway - to control it.
They are prone to inconsistent idle due to unmetered air sneaking in around the throttle shaft. New ones are available or you can have the worn ones rebushed/resealed using urethane plastic (~$100/pr). The linkage that's included in the "Kadron" kits is infamous for reliability problems but there are better setups available.
Check out A.J. Sims' site, he's probably the best source around for all things related to these carbs: http://www.lowbugget.com
What motor would you be using them on? They're a little too big IMO for a stock 1600 (although they'll work on one). Once the initial setup is dialed in - usually just a matter of getting the linkage mechanically synchronized so that both carbs hit idle and full-throttle simultaneously - they're pretty trouble-free. Like any dual 1-bbl setup there's a tendency for #1 and #3 to run a bit richer than #2 and #4 at low speed (nothing you can do about that, it's due to the firing order and the inertia of the air/fuel mix) so idle mixture settings are a compromise. Running-on ("dieseling") is also sometimes an issue...some learn to live with it by selecting 4th gear just before switching off and dumping the clutch if it starts to diesel; it's also possible to fit an electromagnetic idle jet - on one side, anyway - to control it.
They are prone to inconsistent idle due to unmetered air sneaking in around the throttle shaft. New ones are available or you can have the worn ones rebushed/resealed using urethane plastic (~$100/pr). The linkage that's included in the "Kadron" kits is infamous for reliability problems but there are better setups available.
Check out A.J. Sims' site, he's probably the best source around for all things related to these carbs: http://www.lowbugget.com
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Kadrons are GREAT for a daily driver. Put it this way....I had a 60 ragtop with a stock trans, stock 1600 with a Norris 100 cam, header, turbo muffler, MSD 6AL and a set of Kadrons (I say stock 1600 because everything else was stock, including flywheel and heads). One night I raced my dad with his 2000 Dodge ram, single cab, short bed, with a 5.2, automatic and 3.55 rear end. On a 2 lane open road, neither one of us could pass. He finally won when I topped out at 107MPH, as he could run just a little higher. Are Kadrons any good? YES!
That's what she said!Hedrock wrote:As far as the polish goes you can start with a file and just go from there. You don't need a mirror finish just enough to see how much penetration you have.
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Kadron carbs
One of the things that I've found on a lot of the bugs that run dual Kadrons, is that more often than not the balance tube between the manifolds is not installed.
The balance tube makes syncronizing the carbs much easier and allows for a smoother idle.
Don't leave it out.
Ainokea
The balance tube makes syncronizing the carbs much easier and allows for a smoother idle.
Don't leave it out.
Ainokea
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Using the balance tube is fine for a bone stock motor, but in a performance application, it's the first thing you get rid of.
That's what she said!Hedrock wrote:As far as the polish goes you can start with a file and just go from there. You don't need a mirror finish just enough to see how much penetration you have.
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Do you run a balance tube with dual Webers or Dellortos? Without the balance tube, you isolate each carb. The tube will mess with the carb signal at higher RPM. Kadrons run great without the balance tube. I've run one on a stock motor. I've run one on a modified motor. On the modified motor, I was told to remove it by AJ Sims, so I tried it. Throttle response was crisper and I was able to notice a small increase in power. I do not run bone stock motors with Kadrons anymore, as a result, I never run the balance tube either.
That's what she said!Hedrock wrote:As far as the polish goes you can start with a file and just go from there. You don't need a mirror finish just enough to see how much penetration you have.
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Without trying to be controversial, you're absolutely right. BUT, not all Kadrons adjust exactly the same on all engines. In some cases removing the balance tube does help big time. In other cases installing the balance tube helps in curing some minor idle or running problems.
I never meant that the balance tube should always be connected, but if it's not and you're having idle or syncronizing problems, hook up and see what happens. If it's better, OK. If not, pull it off.
For instance, 2 weeks ago a 74 bug with a 1776 comes in with a rough idle problem and no balance tube. After checking the basic adjustments, which by the way were good, I just connected a hose to the balance ports
and the idle smoothed right out in spite of this engine having too much cam for the application.
This is like a bad MAF on a water cooled VW. Disconnect the wire harness and if it runs better, you replace or clean it. If there's no improvement,
in performance, either the MAF is good and there's another sensor that's
not right. You just have to find what works best for that engine.
As far as dual Webers or Dells go, they are not , as I'm sure you know,
one barrel carburetors as are Kadrons. Each type has it's own problems,
right?
Ainokea
I never meant that the balance tube should always be connected, but if it's not and you're having idle or syncronizing problems, hook up and see what happens. If it's better, OK. If not, pull it off.
For instance, 2 weeks ago a 74 bug with a 1776 comes in with a rough idle problem and no balance tube. After checking the basic adjustments, which by the way were good, I just connected a hose to the balance ports
and the idle smoothed right out in spite of this engine having too much cam for the application.
This is like a bad MAF on a water cooled VW. Disconnect the wire harness and if it runs better, you replace or clean it. If there's no improvement,
in performance, either the MAF is good and there's another sensor that's
not right. You just have to find what works best for that engine.
As far as dual Webers or Dells go, they are not , as I'm sure you know,
one barrel carburetors as are Kadrons. Each type has it's own problems,
right?
Ainokea
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Well put. I can't argue or disagree with anything there. On every engine I've ever put Kadrons on (everything from stock 40mm to modified 46mm Kadrons), I've seen an improvement by not using the balance tube. That's just what I've seen, and every engine is different. What works for one guy with a stock 1600, might not with a 2110 or a 1776. Mark Herbert used to say "try it and see what happens, if you don't like it, change it".
That's what she said!Hedrock wrote:As far as the polish goes you can start with a file and just go from there. You don't need a mirror finish just enough to see how much penetration you have.
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- sideshow
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From FJCamper's post Kadron Facts & Secretsflatout_grafix wrote:Pardon my knowless...but can you point out or a pic wich is the Balance Tube?
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=123694
It runs from manifold to manifold under the carb stud
Yeah some may call it overkill, but you can't have too much overkill.
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It's a metal tube or rubber hose, that connects one intake manifold, to the other intake manifold. On steel manifolds, it is welded in. Some aluminum manifolds have threads with a screwed in hose nipple, some have a pressed in hose nipple.....is it okay to say "nipple" on here? Nipple, nipple, nipple, nipple.
That's what she said!Hedrock wrote:As far as the polish goes you can start with a file and just go from there. You don't need a mirror finish just enough to see how much penetration you have.