i have just bought a DJ case engine to fit in my bug, i was hoping to do this later on but it came up cheap so i snapped it up, although this has not left me with much time to source the other necessary parts.
i know that it needs a type4 flywheel and i have the front al planned out to fit radiator. any ideas on what radiator i can use and what type of pipes for the cooling exhaust etc?
i'll scan the other threads and write stuff down but any help would be greatly appretiated.
Thanks
Stephan
what is needed to fit a wbx into a bug?
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Stephanhipwell
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:59 pm
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Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
A 210/215 will drop right in, but you must relocate the input shaft bearing to the flywheel ala T4 swap.
The 228 Vanagon flywheel CAN be made to fit if you are stubborn, and perhaps a little devious.
There is a thread or 5 on that in the Type4um.
There ARE decent+affordable 200mm T4 flywheels being made now, the ones from (IIRC) European Motor Works received some kind words lately.
Supposedly there are some that are a little cheaper that border on... No, good sources say ARE junk available as well elsewhere, so beware.
The 228 Vanagon flywheel CAN be made to fit if you are stubborn, and perhaps a little devious.
There is a thread or 5 on that in the Type4um.
There ARE decent+affordable 200mm T4 flywheels being made now, the ones from (IIRC) European Motor Works received some kind words lately.
Supposedly there are some that are a little cheaper that border on... No, good sources say ARE junk available as well elsewhere, so beware.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Stephanhipwell
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- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:59 pm
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fastback
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2001 12:01 am
the engine fits straight on the tranny( u should swap the 2 lower studs on the case to type1 lenght or shorten the WBX ones)
Maybe some cutting in the trunk floor is neeede ,to make room for the termostat housing , but this depends on which type termostat housing u have)
200,210 and 215, type 4 flywheels fit without grinding the tranny.
Just remember as Tencent says to relocate the needle bearing into the flywheel.You could also change to a longer inputshaft on the tranny from a trany that has the 5 bolt flywheel setup.
Maybe some cutting in the trunk floor is neeede ,to make room for the termostat housing , but this depends on which type termostat housing u have)
200,210 and 215, type 4 flywheels fit without grinding the tranny.
Just remember as Tencent says to relocate the needle bearing into the flywheel.You could also change to a longer inputshaft on the tranny from a trany that has the 5 bolt flywheel setup.
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Stephanhipwell
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Piledriver
- Moderator
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- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
http://www.europeanmotorworks.com/vw/ty ... wheel.html
The 914 FW has the ring gear further out, so ignore that one.
(The stock 914 one can be modded to work, but so can a 228)
No idea on the plumbing, but good ducting to the radiator is everything, easy on a T3. There are good examples here and there, has been done.
I seriously doubt you will get enough air flow above the trans.
I personally like the radiator in a huge whaletail concept, but that spot is much better for an intercooler
The 914 FW has the ring gear further out, so ignore that one.
(The stock 914 one can be modded to work, but so can a 228)
No idea on the plumbing, but good ducting to the radiator is everything, easy on a T3. There are good examples here and there, has been done.
I seriously doubt you will get enough air flow above the trans.
I personally like the radiator in a huge whaletail concept, but that spot is much better for an intercooler
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
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Jim Andritsakos
- Posts: 309
- Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2002 12:01 am
All DJ engines have the later "plastic" thermostat housing in #3...
A Ford transit Diesel radiator is what I have in my 1303.
Do you want to wire the Digijet FI ?
If so have you got all the stuff ?
1) complete intake with throttle body,injectors, pressure regulator,
AFM,DME harness,DME,idle stabilizer,IAC valve,fuel pump ?
You also need to run one more fuel line from the gas tank to the rear.
Good luck,
A Ford transit Diesel radiator is what I have in my 1303.
Do you want to wire the Digijet FI ?
If so have you got all the stuff ?
1) complete intake with throttle body,injectors, pressure regulator,
AFM,DME harness,DME,idle stabilizer,IAC valve,fuel pump ?
You also need to run one more fuel line from the gas tank to the rear.
Good luck,
Jim Andritsakos
1973 1303 German look (project)
1975 ex Bundeswehr vw 181 (FS)
1988 T3 Syncro 16 doubledoor
1990 T3 Syncro panel
1985 T3 Syncro ambulance (FS)
1985 T3 2WD panel (FS)
1973 1303 German look (project)
1975 ex Bundeswehr vw 181 (FS)
1988 T3 Syncro 16 doubledoor
1990 T3 Syncro panel
1985 T3 Syncro ambulance (FS)
1985 T3 2WD panel (FS)
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Stephanhipwell
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:59 pm
yeah i am more up for the up front idea, I've seen it done already and looks good, i will be fitting an adjustable scoop under the front valance to bring more air up along with venting the front of the valance.
I'm running all the original FI and it is all there.
will the transit radiator fit in mine as it's a 65 and the 1303 has more space up front? what dimensions is it? just to get an idea of what size would be adequateJim Andritsakos wrote:All DJ engines have the later "plastic" thermostat housing in #3...
A Ford transit Diesel radiator is what I have in my 1303.
Do you want to wire the Digijet FI ?
If so have you got all the stuff ?
1) complete intake with throttle body,injectors, pressure regulator,
AFM,DME harness,DME,idle stabilizer,IAC valve,fuel pump ?
You also need to run one more fuel line from the gas tank to the rear.
Good luck,
I'm running all the original FI and it is all there.
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AMBROSIA
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:37 am
I have done this conversion.
Look here:
http://www.volkszone.co.uk/VZi/showthread.php?t=353775
I used a scoop + cutouts in the front valance.
Works perfectly and never overheats, even in hot weather.
I can't recommend a WBX conversion enough!
Look here:
http://www.volkszone.co.uk/VZi/showthread.php?t=353775
I used a scoop + cutouts in the front valance.
Works perfectly and never overheats, even in hot weather.
I can't recommend a WBX conversion enough!
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Steve C
- Posts: 1143
- Joined: Sun May 14, 2000 12:01 am
Hi
I wrote this response on here many years ago.
Steve
"Wasserboxer in a Beetle.
The Wasserboxer has received some bad press for headstud problems; coolant leaks and assorted other woes. These problems seem to occur when proper VW servicing techniques are not used, VW coolant and distilled water.
The Wasserboxer motor in my VW Beetle has been looked after as far correct coolant is concerned; I also use distilled water mixed with genuine VW coolant. I fitted an Oettinger 85° thermostat instead of the standard 87°. These don’t seem to be available anymore so I have modified a Mercedes one to fit. The top part of the thermostat is the same as the VW one, but the lower bypass part has a larger diameter flange. This can easily be made the correct diameter by first marking out the correct diameter circle with a pair of dividers and the grind the flange down to the marked circle, it doesn’t need to a perfect circle. I also got rid of water-cooled oil-cooler as I have heard that they can fail. I’m running an air cooled oil cooler with a Setrab thermo block at the front of the radiator.
As far as the rest of the motor goes it is extremely reliable, I give my bug heaps. I have bent one Scat pushrod (I’m now running Berg ones) and had 2 water pumps fail in about 100,000 Ks since 1988 and have had a few coolant hoses fail. My bug is also in constant state of improvement, so some things are always changing.
The Wasserboxers use 2 styles of cooling systems, basically the 1.9 and 2.1 litre style. I prefer the 2.1 style.
Fitting the motor is much the same as fitting a type 4 motor, same style of flywheel. The thermostat housing which sits above # 3 exhaust port needs to have some body clearancing. The water hose that runs from the water pump to the thermostat housing needs to be modified at the water pump end. It basically would run straight through the left-hand rear bumper bracket. Any Beetle exhaust can be used, #1 & # 4 exhaust flanges need to be rotated 90°. In the engine bay I used basically the whole Wasserboxer cooling system and condensed it to fit. You will need a steel coolant ring main as the plastic one cant be shortened easily.
The coolant runs to and from the front of the car via 1.5-inch stainless steel tubes. These follow the chassis bolts along the bottom of the heater channels. I have just upgraded my radiator with a modified Ford Transit radiator. After some gentle prompting from a fellow list user MARTINSR, yesterday I went out and bought an after market thermo fan from Davies Craig http://www.daviescraig.com.au/. It’s meant to be used for a 5 litre V8 and pumps 2120 CFM, so far its working really well, we are having 40 ° + days down here at the moment. I previously used a BMW radiator and Audi 100 thermo fan. Cool air is brought into the radiator through an A/C louvered front apron. I removed the deformation plate at the front of the chassis to allow more air in. I had to also remove the spare wheel well and I just left the rounded edge for a bit of extra strength, I supplemented the spare wheel wells strength with angle steel. My radiator is around 550 mm across and 450 mm deep on the cooling surface, it’s actually a little wider where the tanks are on the side. The radiator sits on a U shaped holder right down on the chassis and comes very close to the under bonnet and leans forward about 5°. I fabricated a sheetmetal alloy housing to guide the cooling air in and let the heated air exit over the front end. I basically used some angle aluminum for the edges and then filled this in with very thin aluminum sheet. In case you hadn’t already realised my bug is a super. I have seen radiators fitted to standard bugs but I have no experience with this. My spare wheel sits on top my fuel tank on a bracket attached to the strut brace.
Original heater channels were retained and warm air is directed from a Toyota troop carrier heater core under the rear seat opposite the battery, to the interior via early Audi 100 brake cooling fan on the right hand side and via the troopy fan on the left hand side. I have used the rear seat heater cable to operate heater shut off valve.
My Kombi motor was purchased new in 1988 and is 2.1 litre its DJ engine number type 10.5:1 compression, 112 BHP type. I original ran the motor with dual webbers Berg cam. In preparation for a turbo the motor was been decompressed to 8.0:1 and the cam changed back to standard. 1.4 berg rockers are used.
I’m using an after market EFI system with the factory manifold, the injectors in the stock manifold sit in a horizontal plane so the side panels in engine bay that the engine tray seal fits in need to be modified or removed.
"
I wrote this response on here many years ago.
Steve
"Wasserboxer in a Beetle.
The Wasserboxer has received some bad press for headstud problems; coolant leaks and assorted other woes. These problems seem to occur when proper VW servicing techniques are not used, VW coolant and distilled water.
The Wasserboxer motor in my VW Beetle has been looked after as far correct coolant is concerned; I also use distilled water mixed with genuine VW coolant. I fitted an Oettinger 85° thermostat instead of the standard 87°. These don’t seem to be available anymore so I have modified a Mercedes one to fit. The top part of the thermostat is the same as the VW one, but the lower bypass part has a larger diameter flange. This can easily be made the correct diameter by first marking out the correct diameter circle with a pair of dividers and the grind the flange down to the marked circle, it doesn’t need to a perfect circle. I also got rid of water-cooled oil-cooler as I have heard that they can fail. I’m running an air cooled oil cooler with a Setrab thermo block at the front of the radiator.
As far as the rest of the motor goes it is extremely reliable, I give my bug heaps. I have bent one Scat pushrod (I’m now running Berg ones) and had 2 water pumps fail in about 100,000 Ks since 1988 and have had a few coolant hoses fail. My bug is also in constant state of improvement, so some things are always changing.
The Wasserboxers use 2 styles of cooling systems, basically the 1.9 and 2.1 litre style. I prefer the 2.1 style.
Fitting the motor is much the same as fitting a type 4 motor, same style of flywheel. The thermostat housing which sits above # 3 exhaust port needs to have some body clearancing. The water hose that runs from the water pump to the thermostat housing needs to be modified at the water pump end. It basically would run straight through the left-hand rear bumper bracket. Any Beetle exhaust can be used, #1 & # 4 exhaust flanges need to be rotated 90°. In the engine bay I used basically the whole Wasserboxer cooling system and condensed it to fit. You will need a steel coolant ring main as the plastic one cant be shortened easily.
The coolant runs to and from the front of the car via 1.5-inch stainless steel tubes. These follow the chassis bolts along the bottom of the heater channels. I have just upgraded my radiator with a modified Ford Transit radiator. After some gentle prompting from a fellow list user MARTINSR, yesterday I went out and bought an after market thermo fan from Davies Craig http://www.daviescraig.com.au/. It’s meant to be used for a 5 litre V8 and pumps 2120 CFM, so far its working really well, we are having 40 ° + days down here at the moment. I previously used a BMW radiator and Audi 100 thermo fan. Cool air is brought into the radiator through an A/C louvered front apron. I removed the deformation plate at the front of the chassis to allow more air in. I had to also remove the spare wheel well and I just left the rounded edge for a bit of extra strength, I supplemented the spare wheel wells strength with angle steel. My radiator is around 550 mm across and 450 mm deep on the cooling surface, it’s actually a little wider where the tanks are on the side. The radiator sits on a U shaped holder right down on the chassis and comes very close to the under bonnet and leans forward about 5°. I fabricated a sheetmetal alloy housing to guide the cooling air in and let the heated air exit over the front end. I basically used some angle aluminum for the edges and then filled this in with very thin aluminum sheet. In case you hadn’t already realised my bug is a super. I have seen radiators fitted to standard bugs but I have no experience with this. My spare wheel sits on top my fuel tank on a bracket attached to the strut brace.
Original heater channels were retained and warm air is directed from a Toyota troop carrier heater core under the rear seat opposite the battery, to the interior via early Audi 100 brake cooling fan on the right hand side and via the troopy fan on the left hand side. I have used the rear seat heater cable to operate heater shut off valve.
My Kombi motor was purchased new in 1988 and is 2.1 litre its DJ engine number type 10.5:1 compression, 112 BHP type. I original ran the motor with dual webbers Berg cam. In preparation for a turbo the motor was been decompressed to 8.0:1 and the cam changed back to standard. 1.4 berg rockers are used.
I’m using an after market EFI system with the factory manifold, the injectors in the stock manifold sit in a horizontal plane so the side panels in engine bay that the engine tray seal fits in need to be modified or removed.
"
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Stephanhipwell
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:59 pm
yup i have posted on your thhread previously, was your bug that finnaly gave me the push.AMBROSIA wrote:I have done this conversion.
Look here:
http://www.volkszone.co.uk/VZi/showthread.php?t=353775
I used a scoop + cutouts in the front valance.
Works perfectly and never overheats, even in hot weather.
I can't recommend a WBX conversion enough!
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Stephanhipwell
- Posts: 94
- Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 1:59 pm
Steve C, great response. got my engine today and all looks good, will promptly start checking all fault areas. might do a minor tear down but would preffer to leave bottom end closed.
i have been warned about about head bolts rotting in coolant. any light on this?
also i have a 200m clutch and preassure plate on my 1600 type1 engine. will this suffice?
i have been warned about about head bolts rotting in coolant. any light on this?
also i have a 200m clutch and preassure plate on my 1600 type1 engine. will this suffice?
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AMBROSIA
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:37 am
As Steve says, if the engine has been used with the proper coolant the head studs will only have a light coating of rust. There's no way to know if it will break until it does, sadly 
Be prepared to shell out for some heads if the ones fitted turn out to be pitted on the sealing surface or under the combustion rings.
The 200mm clutch won't fit unless you have a 5 bolt 200mm flywheel.
You can get 210mm & 215mm original clutch kits from GSF for reasonable money.
The 210mm/215mm clutch/flywheel bolts straight in, it's only the 228mm flywheel that's actually a larger outer diameter.
The only down side to using a 210mm/215mm clutch is the lack of performance upgrades available.
Bear in mind that taking the heads off also means removing the liners and pistons so that the o-ring gaskets can be fitted. The wrist pins can be a little tight and tricky to get out.
Best of luck mate and catch you at another show hopefully
Be prepared to shell out for some heads if the ones fitted turn out to be pitted on the sealing surface or under the combustion rings.
The 200mm clutch won't fit unless you have a 5 bolt 200mm flywheel.
You can get 210mm & 215mm original clutch kits from GSF for reasonable money.
The 210mm/215mm clutch/flywheel bolts straight in, it's only the 228mm flywheel that's actually a larger outer diameter.
The only down side to using a 210mm/215mm clutch is the lack of performance upgrades available.
Bear in mind that taking the heads off also means removing the liners and pistons so that the o-ring gaskets can be fitted. The wrist pins can be a little tight and tricky to get out.
Best of luck mate and catch you at another show hopefully