Difference between Porsche and VW 1700 engine

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killer_15146
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Difference between Porsche and VW 1700 engine

Post by killer_15146 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:29 pm

Hi everybody, this question has probably been asked before but I couldn't find an answer using the search function.
I've been offered to buy a W code 1700 Porsche engine and I am wondering if it is any different from a standard VW 1700 engine, I've found out that the pistons are different but thats it... I need to know more.

Apparently the 2L Porsche engine had good heads that could be fitted to the 1700 using the 1800 barrels and pistons, but would it still be a good buy if I chose to stick with the stock heads? I don't really need another engine right now but I wouldn't like to miss out on a bargain if the Porsche 1700 turns out to be a rare type4 machine very different from the VW 1700.
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slowtwitch
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Post by slowtwitch » Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:33 pm

That W case, is a good case. I'm using one on my build. They have a little more beef in certain areas, than a 2.0 case.

pete

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Cohibra45
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Post by Cohibra45 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:38 pm

I think that both Porsche and VW used the same engine for different cars. I'm sure that Jake or Dave Darling, Tuna or Bleysing will know if there are differences in cams/heads/pistons, ect...But according to Tunas research/reference page: http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/case.htm
the case is the same used for the 411 and 914.

I don't think it is a 'super scarce' Porsche or anything, but I could be wrong. :oops:

Take care,

Kelly (Cohibra45)
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MRRAGPICKER
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Post by MRRAGPICKER » Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:06 pm

If your going to use it in a type 1 car (Beetle, Ghia), the Porsche engine
has the oil filler and dip stick in the desired postion, the VW T4 engine
would have to be modified to fit the engine compartment, not a hard thing,
just something to consider.

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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood » Sun Jan 06, 2008 8:39 pm

There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between the 411/412 1.7 engine and the 914 1.7 engine. ther are minor details like oil filler and dipstick. The same down to the last part# and spec.
The bus 1.7 engine is totally differnt in spec but all the same castings. Ray

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Cohibra45
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Post by Cohibra45 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:39 pm

Thanks Ray,

Should have thought that you would have input but my memory is what my son calls 'old timers' :lol: !!!


Take care and thanks again,

Kelly (Cohibra45)
Kelly (Cohibra45)

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MRRAGPICKER
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Post by MRRAGPICKER » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:12 am

OHH, I almost forgot.

the Porsche engine has a windage tray to keep the oil from sloshing
around on the curves. (unless some rebuilder took it)

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func412
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Post by func412 » Mon Jan 07, 2008 2:28 pm

MRRAGPICKER wrote:OHH, I almost forgot.

the Porsche engine has a windage tray to keep the oil from sloshing
around on the curves. (unless some rebuilder took it)
I´ve found that tray also in VW 412 engine.

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MNAirHead
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Post by MNAirHead » Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:57 pm

raygreenwood wrote:There is absolutely no difference whatsoever between the 411/412 1.7 engine and the 914 1.7 engine. ther are minor details like oil filler and dipstick. The same down to the last part# and spec.
The bus 1.7 engine is totally differnt in spec but all the same castings. Ray
When you say different spec.. do you mean compression?

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tuna
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Post by tuna » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:04 pm

The 1700 was used in three cars: 914, 411/412, and Bus. They are almost identical.

The 914 and the 411/412 sedan used one style of shroud, oil filler, and oil dipstick. The oil filler was bolted to the breather box, the shroud had a threaded hole to access the timing marks, and the dipstick was in the case next to the breather tower.

The Bus and the 411/412 used the other style. The oil filler is bolted towards the bottom of the case. The oil dipstick goes through the shroud and enters through the oil filler. The fan shroud doesn't have a threaded access port for timing.

There are a few differences, mostly camshaft timing (auto vs. manual, intended fuel, etc.) and the compression ratio. As far as I know, there isn't any definitive way of identifying where the engine came from, besides analyzing the engine and checking the pistons.

As for the windage tray, I've yet to figure out what they came on and when. I've seen 411/412 engines with it, some without. The same goes for 914 and Bus engines.

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jinx
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Post by jinx » Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:29 pm

but if its a W ode the internals would be the same? otherwise surley they would have used a different code?

MASSIVE TYPE IV
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Post by MASSIVE TYPE IV » Mon Jan 07, 2008 8:47 pm

No, some models of 411/412/914 were exactly the same engine- it didn't matter what car they came in.

The EA and W codes are a couple of these..

These are my favorite cases.

NextGen
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Post by NextGen » Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:05 pm

As for windage trays, when I was into 914's some 1700's had them and some did not???? After I build my first 914 I found out some had windage trays. I was upset because I thought it was a great idea especially on a 914 which took hard turns, but I was not about to split the case just to put one in.

I have no clue why some had them and some did not???
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raygreenwood
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Post by raygreenwood » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:14 am

I have never seen any of my personnal 411/412's without a windage tray in the engine. These models ranged from August of 72, Nov 73, Jan of 72, sept 74....off the top of my head.

Aside from some of the very small detail differences in the cases that Jake and Tuna are alluding to that have to do with various casting runs and part #'s......the 1.7L as it came in the 411/412/914...were all the same in spec.
Wether they were aut or manual they had 8.2:1 compression with domed pistons and all came with D-jet. Because of this ...save for the early 411's (68-early 71) that only made it to the USA as gray market.....all of the 411/412/914 1.7's used the same cam with the same valve timing, even in the Auto's. Ray

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Bleyseng
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Post by Bleyseng » Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:41 pm

early W code engines did not have a tray nor even the bosses inside for it.(pre 71)
yep,all 411/412 and 914 1.7l's were the same, now 1.7l bus engines are different.

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