Camber on link pin suspension

Wentzel · Post by **Wentzel** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:01 pm

Hi,

I've got a camber problem on my beetle. The left front wheel's camber doesn't want to set with the shims (8 on my model) no matter what I try. I checked the stub axle, torsion bars and arms and removed the front suspension to check if it is straight even the pan head was checked but no visible damage to any component was found. The camber stays positive (top side pointing out) at around 2 degrees. I'm at a dead end and will try to replace the whole front suspension up to the link pins next.

P.S. The right wheel was spot on from the start.

Another thing I would like to know is how to get the link pin suspension to give negative camber +- 2 degrees without binding or wear problems and if it can be done without major modifications.

Thanks

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:04 pm

I'm no expert but my sister hit a curb in her baja and bent the trailing arm. You could not see a bend but the alignment was off and could not be fixed. We replaced the arms with ones from the junk yard and it came back into spec.

Many years ago I worked on a link pin front end for a road racer and we machined the top link pin 'pad' to increase camber. It worked great. It was a long time ago but I seem to remember it was a very small amount to trim off. The old porche guys figured this out long ago.

2 cents,

Theo

Wentzel · Post by **Wentzel** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:08 am

Hi Theo,

I replaced the arms already with a second hand ones without luck but will give it another try. Can't think of anything else to do.

Any idea how much to take off the link pin pad in mm or inches? I guess it will be in the top pin between the arm and stub axle.

Thanks

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:05 pm

Humm, can't imaging two sets would be screwed up. I can imagine your frustration.

I wonder if there may be a problem with the indexing of the torsion leaves. The grub screw that hold the training arms on could be mis indexed... forcing the top trailing arm out too far? My thinking is the torsion leaves are drilled in the center for the grub screw and then at each end to hold the arms. Perhaps the indexing was off or it got damaged somehow you could end up with a problem.

I can't remember how much we took off to alter the camber but it wasn't much. We overdid one and it bound up when installed. It was many years ago and the brains behind the mods was a Porche fanatic. I do remember we did a 1/2 dozen or so sets once we figured it out.

Theo

Wentzel · Post by **Wentzel** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:37 am

Hi Theo,

The car had some damage to the Left and was repaired 2 years ago. I was told the suspension didn't have any damage but I'm not happy and want it to be right.

So far I replaced the left hand stub axle, both arms on the left, all torsion leaves and will check the bearings when taking everything apart again. The pan head was also suspect but I can,t see any damage.

When measuring from the pan footwell to the bottom torsion tube I found that the right "undamaged" side is about 1/2" less that the left "damaged" side. This doesn't make sense and I will recheck with the suspension removed and a level placed on the pan head.

Both sides should be the same or what? My thinking is that it should be symmetrical. I am planning to install the supports from the pan to the bottom torsion tube just to be sure all will be well.

Thanks

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 2:46 pm

I had a Ghia that was wrecked (my wife ran into me) and the pan head got tweeked. You could not see any problem in the head but with the beam mounted I was able to measure a differance from the right to left sides. Eventualy we fixed it by stringing the Ghia between two telephone poles with a chain on the back and a comealong on the front and by gently pulling we were able to get the beam back in position.

It worked very well and I was able to get it professionaly aligned to spec.

It soundls like you have replaced everthing that could be bent...

Theo

Wentzel · Post by **Wentzel** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:27 am

I checked the pan head with the suspension removed and a level held where the lower beam seats and the measurements(between the level and footwell area) are 312mm(12.28") on the left and 311mm(12.24") on the right. I think that is close enough and will replace the suspension after taking it apart and checking everything I can think of.

Can the torsion tubes be bent by such a small amount and have such a huge effect? I even checked the tubes with my level and it looks fine. The only thing I didn't change so far is the torsion tubes and bearings. Will install polyurethane bushes while I'm at it.

Thanks for the help.

Wentzel

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:43 pm

Let us know what you find...we have a mystery.

For what it's worth the poly bushing on the front end suck. Just my opinion. Too sqeeky and not very smooth. I would stick with the needle bearings if you have them and they are in good shape.

Theo.

Wentzel · Post by **Wentzel** » Wed Jul 18, 2007 11:56 pm

The mystery will be solved!!

I came accross a few posts that said the same thing about the urethane bushes for the front and decided to stick to the bearings, just clean check and replace if needed.

I'm going to take apart and clean, check everything in and outside the front suspension that could have an influence on the wheels. Need some time but will tell you what I find.

Regards
Wentzel

Post by **david58** » Fri Jul 20, 2007 5:44 am

Wentzel wrote: Another thing I would like to know is how to get the link pin suspension to give negative camber +- 2 degrees without binding or wear problems and if it can be done without major modifications.

Thanks

http://www.1800vw.bizhosting.com/linkpinshims.htm
The link pin wasn't designed to be changed as far as camber goes I think you will have binding problems.

Berg Fan · Post by **Berg Fan** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:35 am

I have the same problem but the other way round. My right tire is sticking out of the guard 15mm and has 1 degree pos camber and the left is inside the guard and has 1/2 a degree neg camber which is the correct amount from what I read. I have just fitted EMPI dropped spindles and I hope like hell its not them thats the problem, let me know how you get on.

Berg Fan · Post by **Berg Fan** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:42 am

Just measured the king pin angle on my dropped spindles and they are different by nearly 2 degrees ! 1 degree = 10mm( 3/8") at the top of the tire. Have you tried this check ?

Wentzel · Post by **Wentzel** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:38 am

Hi,

Sorry haven't been here for a while.
I have done a similar check but my stub exles are still standard, even replaced the left hand axle.

Removed the whole front suspension to check everything and alignment to pan head, damage etc. Didnt find any problems but alignment with chassis is now spot on and straight. Will still have to check camber again.

How's your angles/alignment looking now??

Berg Fan · Post by **Berg Fan** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:03 am

Hi, the supplier is getting another set of spindles for me to try, hopefully tomorrow so i will check the angle from the king pin hole to the axle at the shop with a special pin i machined up, will let you know how i get on

Berg Fan · Post by **Berg Fan** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 3:23 am

2nd set is as f**ked up as the first set , sick of Chinese crap. GB was right on with his "State of the Industry" speech in his catalogue. Not giving up though.

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Camber on link pin suspension

Camber on link pin suspension

Re: Camber on link pin suspension