1914 turbo bug

[Dan Dryden]

I made my own dizzy plug by sawing off the base of an old dizzy after taking the mechanical gubbins out. The shaft is hollow so I drilled and tapped it for a hose fitting for my breather.
The beauty of this is that the rubber o-ring on the shaft stops any oil seepage.
Not a great picture but hopefully gives you the idea:

[bazibbo]

Ta Dan, I think I'll give that a go... a weepy hole is never a nice thing and I suspect oil mist doesn't do my air filter much good.

[vwgillybilly]

Nice to see it's coming on Baz!

I'm hibernating again, or should I say suffering from work/project paralysis!

Gill.

[bazibbo]

Youre going to have to get out there and man up Gill, you've got the Christmas break to get motivated... and to make up for my dismal dubbing year, I'm gonna make a point of visiting some relatively local turbos... and you're relatively local! I was hopeing that you were going to rush your build and become my technical helpline.

Dizzy plug should be here shortly Dan, hopefully another box ticked. i might resealed my 'fuel pump pedestal' hole whilst I'm in the mood. The Mexican injection runners cover it, but it could be weeping.

I'm getting a few more miles on, between the ice and rain. Still a bit too much detonation, despite running my boosted AFR targets at 12.0 and retarding to around 19 deg between 5 and 10 psi and I'm rashly blaming everything (i can easily hit 24 deg @12.5 afr but it pings away like there's no tomorrow ) Today's blamed item is the renault 5 turbo fuel pump (I think you questioned it before Dan). I think I'm hitting the AFRs initially then it begins to fall off a bit - all happens a bit quick to gauge correctly. I'll let the rolling road guys test it.

I've even tried running without a fuel cap to see if its a blocked breather. I spent an hour or so fiddling with the maps and I'm going to revisit 5 psi again and get away from the over retarded state I was in and keep digging away til I can run 24 degs.

Not looking forward to laying on a cold wet, pitch black drive to wind my wastegate down...

[Dan Dryden]

I think you should ask Santa for a nice Walbro 255 or Bosch 044 fuel pump.

I opted for the Walbro and have had no issues. It was slightly cheaper than the 044 and was actually cheaper to buy from the USA than from a UK supplier at the time (would need to shop around now though). The Jap tuners seem to like the Walbro's too and they really push their boosted motors to the limit!

[vwgillybilly]

Woah dude!!!!!!

Ditch the Renault 5 fuel pump!!! Didn't know you were running that - that will be why you're pinging! They're designed for carbed applications & run no where near as much pressure as a Bosch 044/Walbro 255.

I need to crack on mate you're right but at the moment I'm doing 50+ hours a week teaching, a 68 bay project, 2 x Porsche Tractors, the efi on my Westy & have a house move going on! Plus all the dropped spindle work I keep taking on, a demanding girlfriend & then I'm off to New York for Christmas on Saturday! It's a joke mate honestly, I can't really complain but time is at a premium.

I think you'll be my technological oracle by the end of all this Baz!!!

Regards.

Gill.

[Humpty]

Totally agree with Gilly..... Get that pump out of there.... I don't know for sure, but I'll wager the max pressure for that pump it around 10psi.... A typical EFI engine require 55psi +.... And higher flow rate.... The pumps that the guys have already suggested are bang on.... As an example, the 044 runs at 300LPH of flow and operate at 72.5 PSI!!!!! And you must have a full flow fuel system.... That dead head on the 1-2 fuel rail is not a good idea at all.... And finally.... I have noticed that you have been getting a lot of fuel leaks.... Are you using EFI rated fuel hose and fittings?

[bazibbo]

OK guys, pump's on the way out...

I've got a reasonable unbranded fuel injection pump that should cope well up to 250 bhp and flows 3bar standard and up to 8.5 bar. Its not an 044 or Walbro funds simply don't allow for it at the moment, but it is a motorsport pump and despite the lack of pedigree, the dealer is getting nothing but good feedback from the ones he sells.

Humpty, I'm concerned about the dead end on that rail myself. I think it ended like that as we used a BMW filter / regulator, where the regulator doesn't sit in the traditional position, 'daming' the fuel flow, but sits before the fuel rails not after... I like the idea of thing, just not the way it has to be positioned.

I think I'll be aiming to go the traditional route on this as soon as possible. I haven't seen anyone else running like this. Pipe wise... I think I'm just unlucky, but I'm sooooo conscious about using decent hose now

3 sleeps til Christmas and more importantly, I've got a few days off to get on with it

[bazibbo]

Been busy over Christmas.

Got a decent pump fitted at last, so I'm at least ready to start getting the car running as it should.


The flash on my iphone has single handedly reduced the whole car to a pile of rust! I swear its not anywhere near as bad as it looks.

I also pulled the plugs, really to give me an idea as to what was happening inside. I think the colours reflect the issue I've got, namely the stub ended fuel rail.


The fuel runs from bottom left, top left, then across the engine to top right, then ends with the bottom right plug. That plug really is white, it's definitely not grey or tan. I think, but feel free to add your thoughts, that the last cylinder in the fuel line is running lean under boost.... hence the detonation. But I'm hitting the collective AFRs... due to the other 3 cylinders.

The fuel line between the rails did arc along the top of the fan shroud, but I've managed to remove a foot out of it by running it directly between the rails. I noticed an immediate improvement with when detonation occurs and its begining to look like detonation occurs at so many seconds after I start boosting rater than where it starts. I'm hopeing then that this points to the fuel line 'running out of fuel' due to the way it runs to a dead end.... as a few of you have already pointed out



So... got a decent pump... and more importantly, got an FSE adjustable fuel pressure regulator on its way via ebay, so I'll be binning my BMW regulator and heading down the traditional looped route very shortly.

Guess BMWs don't like 6 foot fuel rails.


Oh and got that plug made up Dan, works fine, but I haven't found a big enough tap yet..

[Dan Dryden]

Hey Baz, I think the problems are a combination of the old Renaut fuel pump and the way you have set up your fuel lines. The fact that the last plug/injector on your fuel rail is so lean shows that it wasn't receiving enough fuel, probably because the pump couldn't move the volume of fuel needed at the pressure required. I hate to think what kind of spray pattern you would've been getting.
Once you've got your new pressure reg and fuel rails set up in a loop (with the new pump) I think you'll have that engine running nicely.
Glad you got the plug sorted.

[Corysvdub]

Baz what spark plugs are you running?

[bazibbo]

Plugs were DPR8ea 9's. (no idea why it's taken me 20 days to answer Cory! )

I've done a few things since last update.

I've set the fueling to run through the fuel rails and into the regulator rather than into a stubbed end. Fuel pressure has been set to a static 45psi and I've seen it rise and hold at 55psi on boost @around 10psi. I've also had another binge unde the fuel tank and conciderably shortened all my pre pump fuel lines and double checked the tank breathers.

Sadly... and like a broken record, I'm still getting bad detonation on boost. I can get out of it... run 4psi boost and retard to about 17deg BTDC... but that's kind of curing the symptoms not the cause.

So.. here's my current settings as it detonates.

10psi boost @ a lowly 21deg BTDC whilst comfortably hitting 11.5 AFR with 55psi fuel pressure (taken about 36 inches after the last injector )....

So I'm happy that the fuel supply is fine, without any starvation.

Any ideas anyone... I'll probably be looking closely at my injectors next

[joosep]

if injectors are fine then I would double check the ignition. Is the 0 point really where it should be. cam marks are correct? you wideband tell you the truth?

[yvre]

Mmmmh...

Probably no other choice than go through all the basics again (fuel settings, VR sensor placement, etc...)

[bazibbo]

Oh no... don't know if it's good news or bad. My injectors are all fine! Had them tested yesterday and they're all flow the same, or close enough to not need cleaning. I'd been hopeing that I had one suspect one

So, you're both right, back to basics, I'll start with a physical examination of TDC and make sure 0 deg is 0.