Heads, how much would you spend?

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:19 am

One thing:

For TIV headwork, No One, and a I MEAN NO ONE can touch the quality of Headflow heads!

If anyone tries to tell you there head is better, they are wrong. This is not opinion, its fact. I have tried every person in the world, no one touches Adrians work.

He has supplied me with one pair of heads per week, and has been since 1997.
I'm hard as hell to please. He builds my heads to my specs.

ErnieDV · Post by **ErnieDV** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:24 am

It seems like these heads would be great for helping Type 1 folks move to a Type IV and that is great, but I don't see them doing much for those of us with cars that were built to be a Type IV to begin with. I've got a 1973 2.0L 914 and a 1979 VW Bus and I cannot live without heat so without a bolt-on heating solution to go with the heads it's a no-go for me.

Claims of 75hp gains with just a bolt-on change sound an awful lot like snake-oil. If it was anyone else making this claim I'd dismiss it out of hand (like the guys who sell billet fuel rails and claim you'll get more hp). Even with Jake making this claim I'm still suspicious and would have to see dyno numbers to show that it was true.

ErnieDV · Post by **ErnieDV** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:35 am

Ok, I should have read the whole thread before I posted. Later on Jake said that just bolting these on to a stock engine probably wouldn't produce any more hp. So if I was building a Type IV to go in a Type 1 I'd pay $800 to $1200 for these because it would solve my exhaust conversion problems. But for my 914 and my Bus I would not be interested unless there was a clear plan that I could follow to get more hp AND it would allow me to continue having heat AND continue using my stock fuel injection.

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:48 am

ErnieDV wrote:Ok, I should have read the whole thread -------------------------------------------
AND it would allow me to continue having heat AND continue using my stock fuel injection.

IF you're keen on keeping the stock FI, then you aren't into the whole HIPO scene and
don't need much over *stock* in a head anyway!

120HP is max for the FI. Stick to the stock head for $175 each from Adrian.

Don

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:02 am

The HP I mentioned is merely an educated guess, and once again we are not talking about a stock engine getting a 75HP gain.
It would be on performance engines that currently are making 140+ BHP

Think about it. basically there is no difference between a TI and a TIV except the heads and the sizes of some parts. I have built many 200HP TI engines that were less than 2275cc. They are much easier to build power from due to the heads mainly.....

Crimson Axes 2563 had alot of tricks inside it, and barely broke 200HP. To say that I could make that engine make 275 HP is very possible in my estimation.

I have been modeling things for a while with this stuff. For instance I went into my engine Analayzer and took crimson axes file. All I did was remove his head file and replace the file from my old 2332 TI engine. Immediately the engine made 40 HP more, and after I made a cam change (TI cam profile) the engine went to 280BHP........

I did this with all of my normal combos and the results were about the same. Right now doing a big TIV above 2500CC results in a low revving torquer.

Who knows actually how much power we can unleash with these heads, only my dyno will tell. BUT all I can say is that the only thing holding back the power of our engines is the heads, and heads are everything!

tuna · Post by **tuna** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:14 am

I voted for 1200-1500 for these heads, assuming they will receive the usual p/p before I receive them. Heads with 'as cast' ports and chambers should be a bit less cash.

Tuna

dbcflash · Post by **dbcflash** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:58 am

Jake, you should really play up the fact that with these new heads a type I header could be used instead of the *expensive* type IV headers currently available. A man could save hundreds of dollars on an upright conversion if he didn't have to dump $1000 or so on a header. I'd pay a few hundred more on heads if I could save that much when I bought the exhaust.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:14 am

Exactly! But we are having some exhaust stuff worked out also for the std heads...

jasonb · Post by **jasonb** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:50 am

I voted for $800-1200 but I think that the basic heads should be damn cheap.

The only requirement for the basic head is a good casting, basic reliable components and excellent potential. That way anyone can take the basic head and invest as much or as little as they wish for their particular application. These heads do not need to start out as $3000 big valve monsters. This just limits your market by limiting the possible applications. Besides, we already have Remmelle for that.

Jake, thanks for going the extra mile for the community. If these heads become a reality and if I can buy a pair that will get me in the 150HP ballpark for ~$1000 I guarantee that I will buy a pair.
If however they end up costing $2000 and only come in big valve varieties...well then, I will applaud your hard work but I will not be buying a pair.

Zervun · Post by **Zervun** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:18 am

I would definately be interested in heads starting around 700 then scaling up w/ $$ performance wise.

roo · Post by **roo** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:20 am

My view is they should be reasonable enough to where anyone building a performance minded street engine should consider them wether they are a type 1 or type 4 person. having them available as a bare casting would be a major plus for the hard core crowd as they could machine different port/chamberconfigurations to suit there needs i say 800 for base model up to whatever people will pay.

MASSIVE TYPE IV · Post by **MASSIVE TYPE IV** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:26 am

Bare castings would be a nightmare. Just like longblock engines. The best heads in the world can be ruined with the wrong final prep and assembly.

All the way, or not at all....No room for error that way. No way anyone can gripe. If they want them higher tuned they will be offered in stages that are from mild to as wild as you can safely get.

Once again, all the cam profiles will be changing. Web already agreed to give me the exclusive rights to all the profiles we design for them.

dstar5000 · Post by **dstar5000** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:06 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:----------------Web already agreed to give me the exclusive rights to
all the profiles we design for them.

So does that mean we can buy the 2316 Annihilator cam from them now?

Don

fredybear · Post by **fredybear** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:10 pm

MASSIVE TYPE IV wrote:Bare castings would be a nightmare. Just like longblock engines. The best heads in the world can be ruined with the wrong final prep and assembly.
.

Bare castings for the do-it-yourselfer.......Some peops wanna have some fun....

Heads Nikies DTM thats 4Gs right there....OUCH

76campmobile · Post by **76campmobile** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 12:53 pm

For the record,
For the $$ that I paid for the head, I should have mentioned the 3 small broken tin screws that had to be removed and retapped , chambering and the con rod that was checked for straightness and rebuilt /rebushed.
Wasn't meant to be a pi$$ing contest (my guys is better than your type of thing) as far as shops go. Maybe it cost me more than it should have but I'm confident that they'll stand behind the work also.

The post was just to illustrate that good quality parts and workmanship does'nt come cheap.
O.k. I'm just goin' to drop it ....

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Heads, how much would you spend?

Whats the max you would spend for awesome heads