The Dub Shop ECU - MaxSFI

User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

Sorry for the lack of updates guys. I have been pretty short on time. But it should be installed in my car this week if all goes well :P

Image
raggdout63 wrote:I hope you're able to get some good testing in on this Mario. Converting my wifes Square from a 1600 with MS1 to a Type 4 2258. I was looking to upgrade the MS1 to MS2, but may just jump to your new box here. Keep us updated on the progress and when availability for this. Thanks for all the advances you've been bringing to the VW EFI community.
It's my pleasure to create for the community! I'll certainly let every one know when they are ready to go 8)
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by MarioVelotta on Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
User avatar
Chip Birks
Posts: 4033
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:59 pm

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by Chip Birks »

Update time...
User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

Update for you :)

It's running in my car now and everything is going super good! Full sequential, 3 wire idle, launch control, and using the internal wideband. I had to add another bung to my header for this.
2016-03-18 17.00.02.jpg
So that makes 6 widebands in my car now. I have the Internal widband controller hooked to a Bosch LSU 4.9 pre collector, and my 5th LC-2 post collector so I can compare readings from the two.
2016-03-19 07.51.39.jpg
Here she is pre install
2016-03-16 20.16.52.jpg
And I have a nice spot for it right next to all my other wiring
2016-03-08 12.23.14.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
terryly
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:23 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by terryly »

Nice Mario looks good. What is black flat device on drivers side?
Terry
Terry Lytle
Canada
2180
8.5-1 comp
JE forged pistons
Porsche piston squirters
30mm triple "O"ring pump
Web 86 a
1.4 ratio rocker
MS3 PRO ecu
Mini Cam Sync
LS2 coil
50mm Throttle body
TD04L-13T Turbo
SL-1 Turbo prepped heads
User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

Hey Terry!

That is my fuse panel. It's an 18 circuit unit and also a ground buss.
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
terryly
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:23 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by terryly »

Sweet :D
Terry Lytle
Canada
2180
8.5-1 comp
JE forged pistons
Porsche piston squirters
30mm triple "O"ring pump
Web 86 a
1.4 ratio rocker
MS3 PRO ecu
Mini Cam Sync
LS2 coil
50mm Throttle body
TD04L-13T Turbo
SL-1 Turbo prepped heads
User avatar
ToRy 70
Posts: 1338
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:00 pm

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by ToRy 70 »

Psyched! :mrgreen:

Is your MS relay board live in that picture or are you running your own relays for this build?
User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

ToRy 70 wrote:Psyched! :mrgreen:

Is your MS relay board live in that picture or are you running your own relays for this build?
I made the harness plug into the connectors where my MS3 was. So yes the relay board is being used. I made mine plug and play 8)
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

My ECU went into Pre-Order Status today. I am expecting to start shipping in May. I'm so stoked about these :mrgreen:

http://thedubshop.goodsie.com/the-dub-s ... t-computer

I have been running mine for the past couple months now. During this time we have found a couple areas that could be improved and made changes before the production boards where made. These improvements include some indicator led's on the main board itself for visual reference of the comm channels and the main power input to aid in any troubleshooting and just to know power is getting in. The coil drivers where re-positioned to allow for better mounting to the case, and finally some adjustment to a couple traces on the bottom of the board to allow clearance at the main board mounting locations. I can't tell you how excited I am about this :D

One of the coolest parts about this ECU is the internal wideband controller. I installed this right beside the Innovate LC2 so I could get that side by side comparison. Come to find out it actually provides data just a bit faster than my LC2 through the CAN bus using the Innovate serial chain. I was happy to see that.

In the graph below you can see this. The Pink in the 3rd row is the internal wideband trace where the Red is the LS2. And Green in the same row represents the average of the 02 sensors at the 4 ports. This sensor is also set to a lag of 100 which uses no filtering on the signal. If you look at the traces you can see it goes full lean quicker and it also starts reacting first to the reintroduction of fuel. One last thing to note it the long delay form the port mounted 02 sensors to the collector mounted sensors, about 1.5 seconds or 1500ms. You have to take this into account when using autotune, otherwise you will be correcting the current cell for something that happened 1.5 seconds ago :!:
Wideband Speed.png
One of the other things I wanted to see was how well the sensor stayed on track over a period of time. So I found an area that I can drive steady for a period of time and did an average over that period. Here are my results.
MegaLogViewer HD 4.1.01.jpg
If I average all the sensors at the ports to one field called 'AFR Avgerage', then compare the 'Internal WB' to that with the 'Int vs Avg' field there is less than .05% deviation over almost 60 seconds of time. I think that is pretty bad a$$.

If your interested here is the link to get in on the pre-order.

http://thedubshop.goodsie.com/the-dub-s ... t-computer
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
User avatar
ToRy 70
Posts: 1338
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:00 pm

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by ToRy 70 »

Hi Mario,

Excited to jump on this! Hopefully I can maintain momentum and keep knocking stuff out to get running again.

If you don't have individual O2 sensors near the ports to compare data, how do you dial in the wideband delay? Do you just estimate? It's been a while since I've opened up a copy of TunerStudio.
User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

To find the latency you can do some creative logging. I use overrun fuel cut to make the PW zero and then watch how long it tales for the sensor to go full lean and then reference the RPM it happens at.

In the pic below you can see the PW in red on the second line. And the Pink as AFR in the 3rd row. So from the time that the injectors turn off to the time that the wideband registers full lean is about 871ms (seen at the bottom). And you can enter that in the 2200 rpm position for the lambda delay :)
Screenshot 2016-04-27 21.20.07.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
User avatar
Piledriver
Moderator
Posts: 22760
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by Piledriver »

ToRy 70 wrote:Hi Mario,

Excited to jump on this! Hopefully I can maintain momentum and keep knocking stuff out to get running again.

If you don't have individual O2 sensors near the ports to compare data, how do you dial in the wideband delay? Do you just estimate? It's been a while since I've opened up a copy of TunerStudio.
No need to guess...
Save out your "normal: AFR table, or VE table if not using "include AFR table" calc
("include" is default, and I can't think of a reason NOT to use it)

You can use fuel cut, but its MUCH easier to temporarily set up 3 very narrow bins on the AFR table and have it step up toggle hard rich/back lean over a narrow band at the desired RPMS, then you just compare the PW rise/fall to the WB response at the 3 desired MAPs.
(MS3 has a MUCH larger internal delay table for long term trim,same technique works, just takes more time, the delay seems pretty linear on my setup, YMMV)

The delay will be pretty obvious in the logs, and VEAL will go from working great to working awesome.
The delays at low load and RPM can be pretty loooong with typical VW headers.... I set my RPM bins for 2200/3900/5600 or thereabouts, but obviously just put it in the RPM range you use.
Save the table out for reuse.
Then reload your "normal" table.
Addendum to Newtons first law:
zero vehicles on jackstands, square gets a fresh 090 and 1911, cabby gets a blower.
EZ3.6 Vanagon after that.(mounted, needs everything finished) then Creamsicle.
User avatar
ToRy 70
Posts: 1338
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:00 pm

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by ToRy 70 »

Excellent advice gents. Create an event that's easy to observe and compare log data!

Mario, I'm unsure if I want to make the move to full sequential. I don't feel that 15 psi on a 1776 is really all that ambitious, and I don't anticipate trimming individual cylinders in the future. I know that may be undercutting the full capability of this ECU, but I think batch/wasted will probably work fine for me...? and that means less hardware to replace and fab brackets for. The EDIS coilpack seems pretty hardy. I'm most excited about all the goodies baked in- boost/launch controls, extra I/Os, and the 4.9 controller!
User avatar
MarioVelotta
Posts: 4086
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2003 12:01 am

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by MarioVelotta »

That is the beauty, you can run batch for as long as you would like. Lett of a headache too. But when you feel like a little more control it is easily accessible! There will be a couple of internal jumpers that need to be moved to direct signal but that is easy stuff :D
The Dub Shop
[email protected]
1600 ITB NA - 18sec
1600 Supercharged - 13psi - 15.40 @ 84.66mph
1600 Turbo - 185hp 250tq!! Going for 200
2276 Turbo - 15psi - 11.537 @ 115.74mph
Facebook-Tech-Store
User avatar
ToRy 70
Posts: 1338
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:00 pm

Re: The Dub Shop ECU

Post by ToRy 70 »

Good point, I can always make it spicier later on! I'll reserve some spots on weatherpack connectors just in case...
Post Reply