Make my car stop!

[FJCamper]

Probably the best brake hardware you can buy comes from Pete Skiba at Airkewld.

We use a set of his garden variety crossdrilled rotors on our '70 road racing Ghia and have two seasons on them and they look to be good for a season or two more.

And that's not Pete's best work. The only reason we havn't upgraded to his premium brake setups is what we have from him works so well.

A point already made by posters here is how people just buy whatever is the current fad, or what looks good, for their brakes. At a Road Atlanta driver's meeting a couple of season's back, a Mustang driver actually said "No matter how much money I spend on brakes, they still lock up."

The event managers should have given that guy his money back and put him on the street. Right then.

Money spent or the most impressive parts list does not a great brake system make without the driver showing some common sense.

[torch02si]

Even though this thread is super old, I feel compelled to post here. I have to advise caution on Airkewld set-ups. Significant caution. Pete's customer service at Airkewld is second to none. However, the caliber of the BAD Series kits (front and rear for a 1974 Super) I received was VERY disappointing.

I have a thread in the tech forum of the Airkewld site to show quite a few of the issues I ran into with the install:
http://airkewld.com/index.php?option=co ... Itemid=550
Some of the issues were less significant than others, but some have a direct impact on safety.

It is my understanding that the Airkewld shop moved recently, that Pete had some personal family stuff pop up on the radar, and there were some new hires to help supply the growing demand of the Airkewld line of products etc. I hope the kinks are worked out, because the way Pete handles his business, you really want to see him succeed.

[Jadewombat]

Weird, seems kinda hokey having to shim, etc.

Been running Porsche 924T/944 brakes on my '73 super for years, no complaints or issues, the hardest part was getting the fronts arms mated with a Golf ball joint--the rears were even easier.

[torch02si]

Agreed.

Just picked up a new front and rear kit from CSP which is essentially the Porsche kit you built. Hopefully I'll have some better results.

From my order to parts getting to my shop was a little less than a week...from a company half a world away...in a country that doesn't speak English as a native language...overcoming communication issues with time zones!!! Airkewld took nearly 2 months, never received my complete order, had to contact for missing parts, all for a company in Arizona!

The customer service at CSP will exceed the highest expectations. I hope the engineering and quality is the same.

[Bruce2]

I hope the engineering and quality is the same.

By German law, it has to be.
In order to install and use them on the street in Germany, it has to be approved by the German TÜV. They are kinda like the DOT.

[Marc]

If I wanna do type 3 brakes, do I need to also change spindles? stock beetle spindles dont have a bracket for calipers do they?

what about the fronts? do they make a bracket, or should I make one?

Unless I missed it, this question never got fully answered.
Yes they make brackets.
Stock ball-joint Karmann-Ghia spindles have caliper mounting points but they're of no use with a kingpin front end. The aftermarket "drop" spindles are also available in a disc-brake version, designed to accept stock rotors/bearings/seals from a balljoint car. If you use kingpin spindles made for drum brakes, the brackets would get the calipers hung but I'm not sure how you'd have to approach fitting rotors - I've heard there are adapter bearings, but have never tried it myself:
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... 8&t=133021

All `Ghia and Type III calipers have two pistons (they're fixed, not floating, calipers so one piston on each side of the disc is mandatory).
The calipers used on `Ghias have smaller pistons and pads than those used on Type III, they're easy to recognize because they only have a single pad retaining pin (Type III have two pins).
Late Type III calipers are even bigger than the early ones (they're the same as early Type IV) but won't work on `Ghia (or common aftermarket) spindles because the mounting-bolt span is greater. Considering their rarity, I wouldn't consider it practical to commit to those ones.
The only "stock" calipers available these days are one form or another of the `66-early`71 (through VIN 3x12268738) Type III caliper, usually Varga or Chinese clones - these bolt directly to `Ghia/aftermarket spindles.
Note that the late Type III/early Type IV rotor is also different...the offset is wrong for the `Ghia/early calipers.

I have Type III front and 944 rear discs on my (IRS) daily driver and the front-to-rear balance is quite good - but that's because I have much larger rear tires. Type III front discs with Type III rear drums make a nice combination for most folks (and don't need Porsche wheels). I've had good results using the stock dual-circuit master cylinder (113 611 015BD) with either arrangement. Rear `68-up Beetle brakes that are in decent shape can be fitted with larger wheel cylinders (`65-up Beetle front W/Cs fit perfectly) as a cheap way to improve the bias - you may want to try that before you run out to buy Type III or disc rears. Setups designed for long-spline axles need to have the drums/hubs cut down ~15mm to fit on short-spline axles - the cut must be true, pay to have it done on a lathe.

[Piledriver]

The below mostly only applies to late T3s and 914s....

Late T3 front calipers APPEAR to be same or very similar to late Porsche 914, also 411/412 (IIRC)
Pretty common, easy rebuild, bolt onto late T3 front calipers, offset of calipers is correct, late 914 rotors not compatible on late T3.

I'm currently running BMW2002Ti 4 pots up front, bolt on w/stock late rotors/spindles.
Installed the larger cylinders out back to fix small bias issue.

914 Mahles are right offset and look decent cleaned up.

Still considering 914 rotors and (undefined) rear calipers out back, I Do have 911 rear parking brake setup, not sure if the 914/4 rotor can have the ID turned for them or if I need redrilled /6 rotors (probably latter)mostly because I still need to adjust the rear brakes, and I have no other need to get under the car every ~3K. OTOH it only takes a few minutes.

I don't track the car (hey, it's a std ride height squareback...) but I'm pretty sure I have done a stoppie on a good surface. 205/60s Toyos F/R.

The 2002 Ti fronts and 914 std late 914 front calipers out back were bordering on incredible on my 914... Again, not on the track, but excellent balance//feel and near ~hand of God stopping power up to the limits of the tires/surface.

the 2002Ti calipers DO need to be cut 1/8" to fit late 914 front, would bolt on early 914 and early T3.
Late 914 fronts need ~same spaced back to fix offset on rear. (2 pair of .060 hardened washers worked fine) early versions would almost certainly bolt on, cannot verify but logical based on the known offsets.

[Marc]

The below mostly only applies to late T3s and 914s...Late T3 front calipers APPEAR to be same or very similar to late Porsche 914, also 411/412 (IIRC)
Pretty common...

Yes, as I said above they're the same as `71/`72 Type IV. P/N 411 615 107/108 supercedes to 311 615 107B/108B. I think the 914 calipers may also work (911-351-907-00 and 911-351-908-00) but they're pretty spendy.
But how can any of these be considered common? Who sells them, and at what cost? My point was that due to limited availability it'd be a bad idea to go out of your way to modify a car that doesn't come with them to use them.

[Piledriver]

911-351-907-00???
Those are 911 M calipers, and are spendy and only fit 911 M struts and vented rotors, late 914/4 calipers are 411- parts.

What you say is true new parts, but the 914 calipers are common and not remotely hard to come by used or rebuilt (~$40 locally/FLAPS), kits are cheap for the fronts.

Even the BMW calipers were ~$90/pair rebuilt, ate the $15 core cost.(that was a few years back though) I think they were used on more cars than BMWs, I got them at OReillys, picked them up same day as ordered.

I should add that AFAICT none of the national chains carry the Varga calipers or rebuild kits as suitable sub parts.
(if they have a Cardone part# or similar that would be useful)

If you do everything mail order they are fine, but I can get OEM or OEM "upgrade" parts or rebuild kits in <24 hours, sometimes <2.

[Bruce2]

I'm pretty sure I have done a stoppie on a good surface.

Pictures, or it didn't happen!

[Piledriver]

I'm pretty sure I have done a stoppie on a good surface.

Pictures, or it didn't happen!

It's one of those things that's really hard to take a picture of by yourself, but I'll work on it
Happened on ~2 week old fresh asphalt, clean and dry an hour or so after it rained.

Some idiots "got together" in front of me, the guy behind me told me about it.
He swore the rears lifted at least a foot, I know I scraped the front spoiler hard.

[Bruce2]

I'm pretty sure I have done a stoppie on a good surface.

Pictures, or it didn't happen!

It's one of those things that's really hard to take a picture of by yourself, but I'll work on it
Happened on ~2 week old fresh asphalt, clean and dry an hour or so after it rained.

Some idiots "got together" in front of me, the guy behind me told me about it.
He swore the rears lifted at least a foot, I know I scraped the front spoiler hard.

I've got a similar claim, but without pics, I ain't say'in.

[vwo60]

I went to all the trouble when i disigned a set of four wheel disc brakes for my early beetle, in Australia all conversions must be engineered and approved for street use, this does not stop people from fitting crap that is available comercially from most parts places, out of the box you cannot even bleed these things as the calipres flex so much and is near impossible to get a good pedel, i used a set of four spot front calipers from a jap import and mated these to a 20MM thick x 310MM vented rotor, i then machined the hubs from series 6000 aluminium, the engineer calculated the the displacement of the rear caliper that would work inconjuntion with the front caliper's using the standard dual circuit master cylinder. the rears use a ford caliper and a 300MM vented rotor, no use of a bias valve was required as these has the disired braking bias out of the box, the only issue encounted was with the SA rear end that wanted to go positive under hard braking, as i run 235/45/17 on the rear as they went positive they particially lost there contact patch and started run on the outside of the tyre, i fixed the problem by limiting the downward travel of the rear suspension by about 20MM. from 140KLM the car brakes straight and true with no lock up of eather set of wheel's, hands off the steering wheel, you can modulate the brakes up to the point of lock up with total control, hard braking into corners is excellent as it tells you through the pedal exactly what the wheels are doing, all my experiments with the stock disc's show how badly they fade, when they do mine went from no brakes with a hard pedal straight to a locked front wheels with no warning, brakes using non vented rotors are right behind eight ball when it comes to repeated heavy braking as they cannot get rid of the heat, the brake's have been developed to go on my new chassis which will be fitted to early car, red 9 double a arm front end and for the rear i have a set of porsche aluminium rear trail arms, all suspended on coil overs.

[FJCamper]

Hi VWO60,

Beautiful work, excellent engineering.

What pads do you use?

I ask this because since the ATE/VARGA caliper pads are relatively small, and we compensate in road racing for that with carbon kevlar pads, I wonder if just street pads, but larger, would work as well?

FJC

[vwo60]

When i purchased the caliper's second hand it had brand new standard pads fitted, i rebuilt the calipers and fitted the pads that came with them, they have been on the car now for five years and there is no pad wear back or front, one of the advantages of fitting the largest pad area to a small car is lack of wear in the components as they are not working hard, i still do not understand how people are marketing performance brakes that do not use vented rotors, that is one thing that make's them a performance brake, there is a Kit sold in Australia that uses local components but it will not work with the standard master cylinder and you have to use a proportioning valve to stop the back from locking up so this tells me that no real engineering was applied to the disign of the so called system, buyer beware, not a good photo attached of the rears, i have use composite wheels custom made for the car so i could maintain the correct suspension geometry as i run dropped spindles and along with the added track of the disc conversion it enabled me to be overtrack by only 17 MM , on the front they are a 7 x 17 running a 205/45/17, the rears are 8 x 17 running 235/45/17.