Air to H2O heads?

MnMike · Post by **MnMike** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:38 pm

Ther is a pic in the air cooled vw interchange manual by Keith Seume on page 51. Or maybe locate Martin Taylor out of the UK? Think he hangs out in the forced induction forum? He has that crazy split that was featured in one of the vw mags, and that full tilt Fiat 600 with a pauter case? It had 910 heads with a water jacket, just weld a piece of sheet aluminum around the fins all the way around the head, and weld some bulkhead fittings on each end, or top and bottom. Come to think of it maybe you could use convection to route the water, no pump, like an antique ford

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 6:09 pm

This is cross posted from the Type4um, ast the thought started here, and this seems to be on-topic in this thread.

OK, this has me going again... I have a very low mile 1835 with a stock 4 doweled crank, new stock heads, and a BP 4063 cam in dry storage... (which is about the most useless combo I can think of---I didn't build it, nor do I own a vehicle I would put it in as-is)

Will an AS41 block have room to relocate the studs TO WBX locations?

I'm thinking modded T3 cooling (for the jugs) and wasser heads, water cooled, and a Miller Cycle cam profile... I even have some ugly cracked 2.1 heads... but OK for an experiment.
I'll stick the small rad (possibly a chargecooler too) in the fan intake.

As T1s to me are cheap/disposable motors, and this particular scenario would use mostly parts on hand already save for some AA 94s and a custom ground cam.. the above scenario doesn't make me queasy in the least. I might even spring for a CW crank and some SCAT I-beams...

Can anyone suggest good cam timings and where to get a custom T1 cam ground? (for Miller Cycle, add 70-90 degrees to the intake close event)

OK, what would you CALL a T1 with T3 cooling and WC WBX heads?

A Type1.666?

I'm cross posting this over on the WBX forum.

Joe vw · Post by **Joe vw** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:46 pm

I too thought about this.
The wasser head seems like a better candidate for super squish technology than an air-cooled T1.
The plug would have to angle toward the exhaust valve, a very small dome on the intake valve that ramps toward the exhaust valve and a small bowel under the exhaust valve. A prototype could be made by welding an old wasser or type-4 piston and then carefully profiling the dome and dish. Then make a chamber impression from clay using an old cylinder, piston and head. Send the piston to J&E to duplicate a (2 same 2-mirrored) set. Obviously this would be experimental with no guarantees. You may be able to consult Endyne with your project.
http://www.theoldone.com/articles/The%5 ... ad%5F1999/

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:25 pm

Actually if Endyns prices havent changed too drastically, they would be the cheap route...
They were pretty reasonable last I checked. (for custom pistons/rods)

wbx · Post by **wbx** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:44 am

Piledriver wrote:Actually if Endyns prices havent changed too drastically, they would be the cheap route...
They were pretty reasonable last I checked. (for custom pistons/rods)

So they actually will work with VW stuff? From what I've read of their site, it seems that they only work with Hondas. What did you call them about before?

-Damon

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:04 pm

If it´s for a van/bus, why not just turbo the wbx ??? 160-180 hp is easy obtainable without sacrificing durability, along with loads of torque. Use factory pistons, or Gowesty´s quality ones.
T

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue May 16, 2006 12:16 am

farmer wrote:If it´s for a van/bus, why not just turbo the wbx ??? 160-180 hp is easy obtainable without sacrificing durability, along with loads of torque. Use factory pistons, or Gowesty´s quality ones.
T

And SCAT T1 rods, rebushed as needed.

It's probably going to be a MS controlled, blown, Miller cycle cammed, propane motor.
~19:1 CR (wasser heads/AA forged flattops) and only ~150HP is the target.
_I'm_ planning on putting it in the ressurrected old Pile 914, and if it goes well, My 88 Wolfie will need a rebuild one day...(254K miles, does not burn a drop of oil)

I can't find a wasser core around here to save my life, thus the thought of (ab)using a T1 bottom end for a prototype.

The dead Vanagons here have already been crushed it seems.

The folks who are still driving them around tend to be the hard-core types like us, the remaining Vanagons will likely never see a junkyard, barring a severe accident.

wbx · Post by **wbx** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:58 am

farmer wrote:If it´s for a van/bus, why not just turbo the wbx ??? 160-180 hp is easy obtainable without sacrificing durability, along with loads of torque. Use factory pistons, or Gowesty´s quality ones.
T

Absolutely... a turbo is definitely in the works and is the end goal, but the idea was to update the combustion chamber with something more modern and efficient. Squishies let you run 10:1 (and more) while using a turbo, so you get beautiful driveability while still getting that trubo. Not to mention increased fuel economy, etc.

Since i have an 82 stroke crank, i pretty much need to go with custom pistons anyway. Having talked with the Endyn people, it costs $350 for development work (need to loan them a head, and also a piston which won't come back), and then it is extra for the pistons. I would love to go this route, and will try to talk with aircooled.net on how to get this to happen.

However, the cheap solution is to just get wiseco or ross racing pistons to make up a custom set for around $500 (probably wiseco because they do the gowesty pistons and have all the data). I would just rather have a "better" piston design than stock...

-Damon

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Tue May 16, 2006 5:34 am

If you can convince John to go into this, I´m in for a set too.
T.

Post by **Piledriver** » Tue May 16, 2006 9:16 am

I'll supply the junk head, they can do with it what they will.

I'll even deliver it to Foat Wuth.

wbx · Post by **wbx** » Tue May 16, 2006 11:12 am

farmer wrote:If you can convince John to go into this, I´m in for a set too.
T.

Cool. I'll probably be contacting him in about a month for the feasability of this. It is going to be much more expensive for me than a simple piston swap, as you need to change cams to work with squishy pistons, too... I still need to see if i can afford all this

Basically what i was going to offer him was fronting the development fee, and a deal on the first set of pistons, if i could get that development fee back after he sold his first 6 sets (recouping the costs).

And thanks for the offer Piledriver - i'll definitely let you guys know how it goes.

helowrench · Post by **helowrench** » Tue May 16, 2006 8:47 pm

Pile, i know of a junkyard out near me that had a wbx vanagon in it, as best i could tell the engine (or at least most of the engine parts) were in the cabin.

It has been a ear or so, I just might have to do a driveby to see if it is still there.

Rob

Post by **Piledriver** » Fri May 26, 2006 9:10 pm

wbx wrote:
Piledriver wrote:Actually if Endyns prices havent changed too drastically, they would be the cheap route...
They were pretty reasonable last I checked. (for custom pistons/rods)
So they actually will work with VW stuff? From what I've read of their site, it seems that they only work with Hondas. What did you call them about before?

-Damon

Where do you think Aircooled.nets Squishies really come from? John C. did the same development thing awhile back.
Thus were born Squishies for ACVWs.

A wasser "squishie" would essentially.. be a flat top, maybe a small offset dish ONLY encompassing the plug and ex valve area, and MAYBE a tiny "dome" under the intake... Might not even be worth the effort to have the dome as there isn't much there there.

Hell, you need valve reliefs with just flat tops on stock wasser heads, as the edge of the intake valve sticks out of the chamber some even when closed.

Fortunately, little overlap is desired anyway...

wbx · Post by **wbx** » Sun May 28, 2006 2:39 pm

Piledriver wrote: Where do you think Aircooled.nets Squishies really come from? John C. did the same development thing awhile back.
Thus were born Squishies for ACVWs.

A wasser "squishie" would essentially.. be a flat top, maybe a small offset dish ONLY encompassing the plug and ex valve area, and MAYBE a tiny "dome" under the intake... Might not even be worth the effort to have the dome as there isn't much there there.

Hell, you need valve reliefs with just flat tops on stock wasser heads, as the edge of the intake valve sticks out of the chamber some even when closed.

Fortunately, little overlap is desired anyway...

I've been thinking about this, and i don't see how i can afford to do this. New pistons+development fee+new cam+new lifters+new gasket kit+extras. Its well over a grand. I wish i had the money, but i just can't swing it.

-Damon

Post by **Piledriver** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:05 pm

helowrench wrote:Pile, i know of a junkyard out near me that had a wbx vanagon in it, as best i could tell the engine (or at least most of the engine parts) were in the cabin.

It has been a ear or so, I just might have to do a driveby to see if it is still there.

Rob

It would be appreciated!