VW Engine Build-Off Input Request

dstar · Post by **dstar** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 11:10 am

My 2316 will fit in the engine compartment of any aircooled VW also....

My beef is with DB&HVWs always giving bad info on the type 4,
or acting like it doesn't even exist.
Like the statement of 94mm cyl limit above. ^

Like the flywheel article......they made those ignorant of the T4 think
that the only way to put a T4 in a bug is to buy an expensive flyweel
from Fat Performance.....

IF they had done even a LITTLE research, before writing or giving
that article the blessing to be published, they would have found that
there are 5 different FWs that bolt in:
200mm, 210mm, 215mm, custom from KEP and custom from Fat.

I hate misinformation about the T4...that is intended to keep the
"fatboys" rich, that have gotten rich off of the Type I business,
by keeping KNOWLEDGE out of the public's eye.

Don

JohnConnolly · Post by **JohnConnolly** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:55 pm

if you can't take it on a 500mi drive it's not a street engine.

I laugh when I see some of these "street engines" that wouldn't make it 20 miles.....

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

bugnut68 · Post by **bugnut68** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:37 pm

What "bad information" has been passed on to readers by Hot VWs? I'm legitimately curious, as that's kind of a blanket statement to lump a national publication into. Just wondering, as I don't know a thing about Type 4's, myself.

Eaallred · Post by **Eaallred** » Fri Jan 13, 2006 4:49 pm

JohnConnolly wrote:if you can't take it on a 500mi drive it's not a street engine.

I laugh when I see some of these "street engines" that wouldn't make it 20 miles.....

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

Agreed completley. People take thier 190hp motor for a drive around the block and call it "streetable". Put-put-putting through traffic on a surface street is an extremley light load on the VW engine and doesn't prove squat about its streetability.

Hell, my drag motor will drive around my neighborhood (on 91 pump if I want too!). But that doesn't prove anything since when it comes down to it the car is not driveable on the streets, and wouldn't make it for a mile or two down the highway without killing itself.

914pwr · Post by **914pwr** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:08 pm

it would be something for some one to drive out there on there motor run it on the dyno then drive back 2000 miles round trip that would be a street motor

bugnut68 · Post by **bugnut68** » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:28 pm

bugnut68 wrote:What "bad information" has been passed on to readers by Hot VWs? I'm legitimately curious, as that's kind of a blanket statement to lump a national publication into. Just wondering, as I don't know a thing about Type 4's, myself.

Still waiting for a response to my earlier question...

The reason this bothers me is because I work for a small-town weekly newspaper and recently we've received complaints from the north end of the county in which the paper serves. Granted, the newspaper is stationed in the county seat of Lakeview, so much of the news is local to our town, but we do try and get up north to cover what's going on up there. People bitch and moan that there isn't enough coverage of the north end of Lake County but then, when I travel up there on business to cover things, not once did I hear "We shoud let the Lake County Examiner know about this." It was always, Bend Bulletin this, Bend Bulletin that. So in my opinion, if we don't know about it or don't receive the info, they have right to bitch, as our budget doesn't allow me to drive 200 miles round trip every single week.

Sorry for the non-VW diversion there, but I truly am interested to hear some concrete proof to back up the claims made against Hot VWs earlier. Not enough Type 4 coverage is one thing, but I'd like to see what "misinformation" is provided within their pages.

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:53 am

Bugnut. I do not know the specific article on T4´s in HWM. (I havent seen one on this side of the pond for quite a while) But to me, leaving out information is about as bad as to misinform.

WRT telling which engine is the better, you might want to borrow something that the V8 guys use, and me too for that matter, when it is determined if a street setup is good, bad or ugly. That is "APBM" - Average power band measurement. It is meant as a tool to see if a setup really does yield more power total than the previus. And sometimes it scares you to see that you only move the power around.

As for how streetable the engine will be in real life, Erics approach to a f.i. 50 hp load for X amount of minutes will divide the sheeps from the goats. Good thing IMHO
As to how large the engine must be. Well, you have to set a limit somewhere. I am also more in favour of a max cc. instead of max bore and max stroke.

If it turns out that ten builders will expose ten completely different setups, so much the better! that will aid in showing that there are many different variables, and needs. One will build a 1914 T1, one will biuld a 2275 T1, another one will build a 2056 cc T4. See.

If you want more similar engines in the test, you need to limit the cc´s to say 2000 cc. (Only a suggestion) - Thats how it was approached by VW Speed magazine in Germany some years back. Those builders had to bring a car with the engine installed. And the engines were tested on a Bosch chassis dyno, along with sprint times, engine temps at 80 mph, and noise level. Last isnt unimportant in a street car.
- All data was revealed, so the reader could see how the particular engine did in a particular test. - Naturally there was some difference, but at the end of the day, there was one with thebest total figures.

If you want to do this Dean, which I think you should, take alook at how Engine Masters do that kind of testing. It will give you and all others a much better understanding of how, when and what is going on.
Torben

deano67 · Post by **deano67** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 9:46 am

At this point, I am not longer directly involved with putting on a VW engine build-off. As I posted on another forum, Chico Racing Engines and JayCee Enterprises have been working on this idea for over six months, and there is no sense of doing two VW engine build-offs. So, I will support Chico's efforts. And from what I can see, about ten (or less) engines will be tested on Jack's flywheel dyno around October of this year. Exact rules, engine size, and how to get involved is up to them. I do know that both the Type 1 and TYPE 4 (!) will be involved. See, I said it, TYPE 4!

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:33 am

Thataboy

wasnt so hard was it..

Alright Dean. Lets see what they come up with. It could be rather interesting, as long as it is not going to be "one sided promotion"
T.

bugnut68 · Post by **bugnut68** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:35 pm

I'll admit that I'd love to see more done in the way of tech and articles on Type 4's, as I don't know very much about them and I'm sure there's lots of other people in the same boat as me. But there's a HUGE amount of difference between printing misinformation and not publishing information at all, and I beg to differ that the latter is just as bad as the former. Not publishing information does not cause a potential liability issue, whereas the former does. My comment was directed more at the poster at the top of this page that made that claim but I've yet to see any real backing to support it.
Sorry to make waves, but as a career journalist myself I couldn't help myself!

farmer · Post by **farmer** » Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:55 pm

You got a point on the liability issue. I agree .
T.

dstar · Post by **dstar** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:38 am

deano67 wrote:.......... Exact rules, engine size, and how to get involved is up to them. I do know that both the Type 1 and TYPE 4 (!) will be involved. See, I said it, TYPE 4!

BUWAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I KNEW you could Dean!

BTW, YOU wrote the article I mentioned on FWs, typos and all.........

I work at a publishing company and I know what goes on behind the scenes to get things published. It isn 't an easy job and I wouldn't want
to be in your shoes Dean.....

And just to mention about the typos, brought up in another thread,
my proofreaders find at LEAST ten in every copy......

I can build my engine, drive it 6000 miles to the *show* and back,
and still put up decent numbers. Is there a *mileage award*?

Don

deano67 · Post by **deano67** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:43 am

Don and other T-4 guys. Just as a note, I am doing a large, multi-part, Type 4 engine build up story with Jake Raby early next month. Should be in the mag this summer. See, I can do it!

dstar · Post by **dstar** » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:50 am

EXCELLENT! I have a subscription of course..........

I really don't mean to rag on DB&HVWs, but it is the ONLY US VW
mag out there now and just as there should be at least one dune buggy
in each month's mag, there should be at least one T4 in each mag.....

Feel the VW LOVE?!!!?

Don

Chico Performance Racing · Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:26 pm

Hello everyone,

I feel like I have to keep saying it over and over again, the rules will be up at the end of the month, and they will be simple and firm. I wish there was time to dyno every engine for hours but the reality is we will have 10 engines max and have to fit it into 8 hours, so many of the ideas given are very good but unrealistic time wise and would make this event a 2 day event. So, all I can say for now is what and who I know will be there. So if you would like to be part of this event or have ideas you can e-mail me or call me.

Chico 626 390-5107
[email protected]

1. Jaycee
2. Chico Performance
3. Brother's VW
4. Steve Tims
5. Shawn Moore
6. Jake Raby (unconfirmed)