Your thoughts on this cheap tig

scott the viking · Post by **scott the viking** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 8:28 am

The reason I was asking the power company about three phase in my home shop is because I own a commercial machine shop and I have three phase in it. Since converting to mostly all three phase machines my power bill went from 1,800 a month to around a 1,000 a month. My thinking was that if it worked in my business to lower the rate then it would work in my home. I cannot say that I have pursued it anymore since being told that I could not do it, but I am still interested.

Chris_914 · Post by **Chris_914** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:49 am

You can't get 3 phase from the power company if your neighborhood in not wired for it 3 phase has 3 cables, 1 phase has 2. My friend has a body shop that has only single phase, the cabinet maker next door had to get a 3 phase converter to run his 3 phase equipment. The converter is a motor/generator that generates the third leg of 3 phase power. I really don't think that the power company would run a new feed line from the sub station and the transformers to go with it because someone wants 3 phase in their home shop. The sevice panel alone would out weigh the cost benefit.

As to the original post, I haven't used harbor freight's welders but everything else has been pretty much crap. Miller makes an econotig that goes for about $1000. My personal opinion is that is the starting point for a new machine.

scott the viking · Post by **scott the viking** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:53 am

Which is pretty much word for word what the power guy told me. Thanks for the input, sounds reasonable to me.

wrench · Post by **wrench** » Thu Dec 23, 2004 1:32 pm

three phase IS available in residential neighborhoods, but it's "few and far between". usually found in older neighborhoods with VERY large homes (in intemperate climates) that have "large" heating or cooling units....of the numerous 'high dozens' or possibly hundreds of homes wife and I looked at last time we moved, only ONE home had three phase...first thing I always looked at was the weatherhead....then the breaker panel....

'rotary converters' are always nice things to have too

though...generate your own third leg...

Coils · Post by **Coils** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:57 am

scott the viking wrote:
Coils wrote:Thanks for the replies.

Nick there are two style of 220V plugs, that I know of. The one you discribed for driers & stoves is for 3 phase 220V. There is also a 2 phase 220V that uses a little heavier plug then 110V, but instead of the two blades of the plug being parallel to each other, like this l l, the 220V style one is like this - l . I hope you get what I mean.
Since you asked, THIS is who mentioned 3 phase. I have tried to get three phase for my home shop and was told by P.U.D that I cannot run it to my " residential shop". I know, just because someone at the power company told me that, does not make it gossple, but they sounded sure enough.

OOps my goof,

I guess I heard this from someone who didn't know either. What's that saying, the blind leading the blind

wrench · Post by **wrench** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:32 am

oh, boy, while we're talking about this:

anybody got a nice cheap USED mig/tig they wanna sell dirt cheap? or swap? if so, please reply by direct e-mail to me instead of to the silly forum/thanks

James Buchan · Post by **James Buchan** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:49 am

back on subject... you might want to think what your future use of the machine will be - for me I need an AC/DC type so I can do Alumium.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 2:21 pm

FWIW, you can always get a 3-phase converter. A few different types, from a converted 3-ph motor to more sophisticated electronic versions. Probably not as efficient as as the real stuff, but would allow you to run 3-ph on surplus HD equipment, machine tools and such. The converters I'm referring to run on single phase 220V and output 3 phases. Only for running motors though (AFAIK) - SOL on welders (which I wasn't aware run on 3-ph anyway).
Jeff

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sun Jan 16, 2005 9:54 am

the U.S is 60htz I no europe is 50htz that could be a problem

glenfriesen · Post by **glenfriesen** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:20 pm

I saw a post from a guy on another forum who MADE his own tig welder! He used an alternator from a late model Ford (mustang I think, about 140 amps) used an old compressor motor to turn it, ran the power through one of those car battery booster boxes you can get from Candian Tire, Auto Zone NAPA etc.. and some how used a headlight dimmer switch to control amperage. I think that he used the dimmer switch in a way so that the full power of the alternater was not going through the switch so it didn't burn out.
Wiring was something like this: Ground and POS on ALT to the charging side of the booster box through the dimmer switch. GND on booster box (Heavy black cable) to what ever brand of TIG torch you are useing. POS on booster box (heavy red cable) to work piece.
Found some pics but can't seem to post them

fin · Post by **fin** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 4:09 pm

The power into USofA homes is 240/single phase/60hz.

I'll let the electricians tell you how you can really give yourself a jolt if you touch the power side of two different outlets (120 + 120 =240).

Europe is on a 60hz system as well. Except for east of the former Iron Curtain and they may have switched as well. The USSR operated 50hz equipment.

Since wiring my garage for 240, my wife can't tell when I'm using the table saw anymore as it use to dim the lights when I was using 120.

Search the web for ford bbs's for the posting on the 'economical' TIG welder Glen is refering to. A hoot for the Gizmo Engineer's at heart.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:13 pm

You're right, 3-phase IS expensive, but it's not 220 VAC, it's 208 VAC, 3-Phase.

Typically, the 208 VAC, 3-Phase installations are pulling a lot more current (power) from the outlet and mains than you'll see on a 220 VAC 2-phase circuit. 60 amps from the wall outlet is about max for 208 VAC, although I've seen a couple of 80 amp hard-wired wall connections. You might be surprised at how warm (hot) the wall connection gets when your equipment is pulling a constant 50 - 60 amps through it!!

Many large computer systems (We're talking Mainframes and larger "Open" systems, here) run on 208/3-phase at 30 - 60 amps, (again, these are commercial installations) and I've only ever seen one home wired for 208 3-phase and that was because the guy had a machine shop in his cellar with several full size Bridgeport Milling machines.

Not all neighborhoods are wired for 208 3-phase. It helps if you're near a light industrial zoned area - they typically use it, so the local grid will supply it for them. If you're in the same neighborhood, then the utility company might be more inclined to provide it. They're ALSO going to expect a certain amount of power usage per month to justify the connection in the first place (over and above what you might use with 220 VAC 2-phase).

220 VAC Motorized power tools (think hair dryer, here) designed for the USA market may run just a bit faster in the UK and Europe, but they will not be damaged by the higher AC frequency (60 vs. 50 cps). If it is a battery operated tool (like a cordless drill) then all you need is the appropriate charger for that country and the tool won't know the difference.

The TIG welder, starting this thread, probably won't know the difference, either, once you get the right plug installed.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:18 pm

Ooops! Got that bass-ackwards! USA-designed, 220 VAC direct-connect, Motorized power tools will run SLOWER in Europe since the AC frequency is 50 cycles (Hertz or Hz) rather than the 60 Hz standard here in the states.

Sorry....it's late for me here.

Volcano · Post by **Volcano** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 4:02 am

All you need is a 3 phase generator to get the other leg.Been there.Works great.Don't know how much they cost but I got mine used.Regards

alsehendo · Post by **alsehendo** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 12:12 am

Several hundred will buy you 3 phase converter for things like a mill.

http://www.isomatic.co.uk/3phConverter.htm