No one likes to see FI dumped for a simple reason, unless of course, I can pick it up cheaply ! Especially DJet, as I can use the same stuff on my Square or 914 motors OR bus 1.7 !
My Weber gets me almost 25 MPG, good power band, doesn't run very good in cold temps ( or at all ) and there's a problem going between the idle and progression jets I have to figure through yet.
My plugs are a beautiful brown and I run a stock dizzy. Top end is good just that annoying transition between the two circuits ../.. I have the mixture jet set as suggested no more than 3.5 turns out so I think I'm running idle OK, just need some tuning
Have you experienced this prob and what was it that you looked at ? I don't have the experience that you do so perhaps some pointers ??
Busman 70, since you are a guest listing ..... Where do you live ? Is cold a problem for you ( like 40 degrees and less ? ) How did you solve the probs ?
Please share your wisdom .......
Type IV FI conversion
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luke78
- Posts: 132
- Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:01 am
I did the trade as well, except I went from a center mount weber back to the stock l-jet on my 77 2.0. I love how responsive and smooth the FI is compared to the weber. The previous post stated my problem with the weber, that it sucks in cold damp weather. If you live in a warmer climate then great, but the weber was pathetic in the cold damp winters here in the North West. Ultimately you're going to have to do what makes you most comfortable and happy, my happiness began when I tracked down an L-Jet and replaced the weber.
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busman70
Metropoj,
Actually I am registered as busman78 but can never remember my password so I use busman70 as a guest. I reside in New Mexico which has allowed me to experience the "Cold Natured" side of a centered mounted weber. Duals can suffer from icing also if the manifolds are tall.
Your delay coming off idle to accelerator mode can be caused by to much play between the actuator arm and the accelerator pump. It is an easy check, easier if the carb is off the enigine. From the idle position rotate the throttle arm at the same time watch the accelerator arm against the pump, it should move at exactly the same time you open the throttle. If there is a a liitle delay (play in the arm) then that will give you a lag coming off idle. The cure is easy, bend the arm that rides against the throttle arm which activates the accelerator pump until there is no free play, at the same time make sure not to bend it too much so that it is not engaing the pump while at idle. A few thousands gap should be okay, but the lag should be gone.
Since you will have the carb off for the above operation, a few years ago while suffering with the frozen carb blues I built a heater box. Just 24 ga metal that fits around the carb and over the intake runners about two inches clearance on each side with the top of the carb and air cleaner sticking out. Slots cut for the fuel and vacuum line, a slot for the cable. It drops all the way down and rests on the top of the engine case. Since none of my buses have a choke the heat coming off the engine keeps the carb and center section warm enough preventing icing. Yea, it is one ugly looking set up, but slips on easy and comes off just as fast. A large tin can could also be trimmed to fit.
Have fun!
Actually I am registered as busman78 but can never remember my password so I use busman70 as a guest. I reside in New Mexico which has allowed me to experience the "Cold Natured" side of a centered mounted weber. Duals can suffer from icing also if the manifolds are tall.
Your delay coming off idle to accelerator mode can be caused by to much play between the actuator arm and the accelerator pump. It is an easy check, easier if the carb is off the enigine. From the idle position rotate the throttle arm at the same time watch the accelerator arm against the pump, it should move at exactly the same time you open the throttle. If there is a a liitle delay (play in the arm) then that will give you a lag coming off idle. The cure is easy, bend the arm that rides against the throttle arm which activates the accelerator pump until there is no free play, at the same time make sure not to bend it too much so that it is not engaing the pump while at idle. A few thousands gap should be okay, but the lag should be gone.
Since you will have the carb off for the above operation, a few years ago while suffering with the frozen carb blues I built a heater box. Just 24 ga metal that fits around the carb and over the intake runners about two inches clearance on each side with the top of the carb and air cleaner sticking out. Slots cut for the fuel and vacuum line, a slot for the cable. It drops all the way down and rests on the top of the engine case. Since none of my buses have a choke the heat coming off the engine keeps the carb and center section warm enough preventing icing. Yea, it is one ugly looking set up, but slips on easy and comes off just as fast. A large tin can could also be trimmed to fit.
Have fun!
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11914
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Busman, I am also wondering why those with carbsthat need manifold heat, do not use standard ceramic heater "bisquits" like Audi and Volvo use in their cars. They work great. They are electric, about 3" in diameter and about 1/2" thick. They mount in the center part of a manifold right under the carb. Ray
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ncvwce
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:24 pm
I took the FI off of my '79 because the "fuel injection" was having problems. I put on a new set of weber 40idf's, which ran okay... and still had the problem. It would just cut out completely, and everywhere i took it and everyone I talked to said it was the FI brain going south. I messed around with it for about 3 months before I determined there was crap in the tank. I pulled the engine, pulled the tank, and there was a chunk of rubber from the filler neck in the bottom of the tank. I cleaned the tank, put it back in, and it ran fine. I wish I wouldn't have trashed the injection, as it ran MUCH smoother, quieter, and got better mileage than the duals. In an effort to get better mileage, I switched to a single progressive set up, and HATED every minute of it. I quickly switched back to the carbs, and ran then until they caused the engine to seize. (#3 main jet was clogged, causing #3 to run lean and burn up in the middle of kansas) The bottom line is, the factory spent alot of money desiging a complete package that runs well, has decent power, and gets good mileage. DONT MESS WITH IT. Stock stuff runs pretty good, albiet sometimes slow.
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metropoj
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:01 am
Electric Choke ? Just goes to +12 on the coil, As it heats up, it opens up .... nuff said ...
My problem is cold weather. I was told to use a Chrysler air cleaner to feed in warm air from the heat exchanger to keep carb icing from happening .... when it gets cold here, the bus is horrible .... By the time I get around to it, I'll probably have the injection rebuilt and installed !
Busman70, thanks for the insight. When I tear my carb down some time, I'll do a comparison of my jets etc and perhaps ask for some advice based on the issue I have ... I would appreciate some help if you don't mind ...
My problem is cold weather. I was told to use a Chrysler air cleaner to feed in warm air from the heat exchanger to keep carb icing from happening .... when it gets cold here, the bus is horrible .... By the time I get around to it, I'll probably have the injection rebuilt and installed !
Busman70, thanks for the insight. When I tear my carb down some time, I'll do a comparison of my jets etc and perhaps ask for some advice based on the issue I have ... I would appreciate some help if you don't mind ...
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busman78
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:01 am
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metropoj
- Posts: 997
- Joined: Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:01 am
Busman78, cool ! I'll check that out with the actuator lever. The carb has about 2k on it brand new so most likely it is incorrect ! Ha .....
Then, it on to the cold running problems ... WHen cold, the transition from idle to progression is ten times worse and no power, unless I rev it up to about 2k, then it's ok for power and shifting gears .....
Anyways, RAY, These Ceramic Heater Biscuits you talked about, I NEVER know they existed !!! How do I even go about searching for one ?? Is it called a Heater Biscuit ??? Perhaps if I knew what type of car model or engine they came on it would help the search ....
Then, it on to the cold running problems ... WHen cold, the transition from idle to progression is ten times worse and no power, unless I rev it up to about 2k, then it's ok for power and shifting gears .....
Anyways, RAY, These Ceramic Heater Biscuits you talked about, I NEVER know they existed !!! How do I even go about searching for one ?? Is it called a Heater Biscuit ??? Perhaps if I knew what type of car model or engine they came on it would help the search ....
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DingoDog
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:01 am
Progressive weber can work on Busses. Well tuned (not hard to do)..it got me 22mpg on the hiways all over US. Yes, its not totally happy at idle and not as good as F.I.....but consider this: you can keep a spare one under the back seat, and not have to Fed-Ex for a small f.i. part from half-way up the Alcan Hiway !!
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rimspoke
- Posts: 232
- Joined: Sat May 17, 2003 8:07 pm
ANOTHER OPTION
ANOTHER OPTION .
I HAVE NOT READ ABOUT ANYONE USING THE WEBER 38/38 NON PROGRESSIVE CARB .
I MADE MY OWN INDUCTION SYSTEM FOR MY 914 1.8 USING THE
38/38 .
I USED THE AFTERMARKET BASE CASTING AND BORED IT TO ACCEPT
THE 38's LARGER HOLES .
I ALSO USED A SET OF STOCK FI INDUCTION TUBES WHICH CARRY
70% MORE AIR THAN THE AFTERMARKET ONES .
I HAD TO LENGTHEN THE STOCK TUBES AND BEND THEM SOME
TO LINE UP WITH THE CASTING .
THIS SETUP OFFERS A HUGE BOOST IN POWER OVER THE 32/36 !
I DON'T HAVE IT EXACTLY WHERE I WANT IT YET BUT IT IS PRETTY DARN CLOSE .
ANOTHER OPTION FOR THE FUEL PUMP IS TO USE THE STOCK PUMP WITH A
HIGH QUALITY PRESSURE REGULATOR ( I HAVE A HOLLEY ) TO STEP THE PRESSURE
DOWN TO CARB LEVELS . IT IS CHEAPER THAN A NEW FUEL PUMP
AND EASY TO INSTALL . IT LEAT THE STOCK PUMP THINK IT IS STILL
RUNNING A FI SYSTEM AND STILL RUNS FUEL BACK THROUGH THE
RETURN LINE .
I HAVE NOT READ ABOUT ANYONE USING THE WEBER 38/38 NON PROGRESSIVE CARB .
I MADE MY OWN INDUCTION SYSTEM FOR MY 914 1.8 USING THE
38/38 .
I USED THE AFTERMARKET BASE CASTING AND BORED IT TO ACCEPT
THE 38's LARGER HOLES .
I ALSO USED A SET OF STOCK FI INDUCTION TUBES WHICH CARRY
70% MORE AIR THAN THE AFTERMARKET ONES .
I HAD TO LENGTHEN THE STOCK TUBES AND BEND THEM SOME
TO LINE UP WITH THE CASTING .
THIS SETUP OFFERS A HUGE BOOST IN POWER OVER THE 32/36 !
I DON'T HAVE IT EXACTLY WHERE I WANT IT YET BUT IT IS PRETTY DARN CLOSE .
ANOTHER OPTION FOR THE FUEL PUMP IS TO USE THE STOCK PUMP WITH A
HIGH QUALITY PRESSURE REGULATOR ( I HAVE A HOLLEY ) TO STEP THE PRESSURE
DOWN TO CARB LEVELS . IT IS CHEAPER THAN A NEW FUEL PUMP
AND EASY TO INSTALL . IT LEAT THE STOCK PUMP THINK IT IS STILL
RUNNING A FI SYSTEM AND STILL RUNS FUEL BACK THROUGH THE
RETURN LINE .
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raygreenwood
- Posts: 11914
- Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:01 am
Thats interesting. Its still dangerous to use, the stock fuel pump for carb pressure...but at least when pressure regs fail, they generally provide no pressure at all and you have the return loop to vent...so thats good.
I have no quarrel with progressives in general....just the Holley itself. I have been wondering why there havn't been a whole slew of other carbs tried. Not that they may not have the same idle circuit problems, but you don't know until you try. All I have seen people trying in general...are the holley/weber 5200 series....all my life. At least rimspoke is trying something out of the ordinary. Ray
I have no quarrel with progressives in general....just the Holley itself. I have been wondering why there havn't been a whole slew of other carbs tried. Not that they may not have the same idle circuit problems, but you don't know until you try. All I have seen people trying in general...are the holley/weber 5200 series....all my life. At least rimspoke is trying something out of the ordinary. Ray
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busman78
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 12:01 am
Okay, now you are treading into an area that trips my trigger. Just finished making an adapter so that a Holley 1920 (1924?) 1bbl carb can be mounted on the Weber Progressive manifold. This Holley was the mainstay of the Ford 144-170-200 six cylinder engines. This includes a Autolite designed carb for the same six cylinder engines since they have the same bolt pattern and correct accelerator rotation. Also have started adpating a Holley bugspray to a center section, although it is sideways requiring a bell crank to properly rotate the accerator. These will be tested on a 1.8 large valve engine, first on the floor then transfered to a running bus. I have found it easier to roam around an engine making the installation and adjustment for the trial run.
The really neat set up would be if the carb is still available, back years ago Holley had a 250cfm 4bbl, cutest little carb you ever saw. Although massive mods would be required for the center section.
Stock FI runners are ten times better than any of the after market stuff. Easy to mod the angle of the runners, two little tack welds on each runner and whatever sealer VW used. The cast manifold ends are strong and the injector ports are easy to weld up.
Kind of frightning what the mind can provoke one to indulge in!
busman78
The really neat set up would be if the carb is still available, back years ago Holley had a 250cfm 4bbl, cutest little carb you ever saw. Although massive mods would be required for the center section.
Stock FI runners are ten times better than any of the after market stuff. Easy to mod the angle of the runners, two little tack welds on each runner and whatever sealer VW used. The cast manifold ends are strong and the injector ports are easy to weld up.
Kind of frightning what the mind can provoke one to indulge in!
busman78
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Bobby74
- Posts: 1747
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2001 12:01 am
Maybe I didn't spend enough time tunning my carbs, but I have run Solexs, Kadrons, and a Weber 32/36 DFAV (I believe)...
I finally transplanted the L-Jet sytem from a Vanagon into our '73 Bay... There is NO issues what-so-ever and it pretty much fired up and ran perfect after tripple checking everything. It is still running great to this day with over 30K miles on it. I am just using one of the vent tubes in the top of the tank for the return line (shhhhhh). I flared it and clamped it real tight with a good hose clamp and it hasn't blown off. (fuel comming out of the regulator can't be more than 15psi) I enlarged the output line as large as the fitting would allow. Thats all it took.... The ECU is even held in with crappy brackets and bungie cords. Its ugly as hell but its SOooooo reliable in the damp, cold, Oregon winters and the hot humid summers.
-Bobby
I finally transplanted the L-Jet sytem from a Vanagon into our '73 Bay... There is NO issues what-so-ever and it pretty much fired up and ran perfect after tripple checking everything. It is still running great to this day with over 30K miles on it. I am just using one of the vent tubes in the top of the tank for the return line (shhhhhh). I flared it and clamped it real tight with a good hose clamp and it hasn't blown off. (fuel comming out of the regulator can't be more than 15psi) I enlarged the output line as large as the fitting would allow. Thats all it took.... The ECU is even held in with crappy brackets and bungie cords. Its ugly as hell but its SOooooo reliable in the damp, cold, Oregon winters and the hot humid summers.
-Bobby