Perfect Power Group Buy

Paul Illick · Post by **Paul Illick** » Sat Apr 14, 2001 6:31 pm

Excuse me, Mr. Thornton, but I don't think we've been properly introduced. My contacts with Perfect Power began six or so months ago through their website, and there's never been any mention of you or of Perfect Power USA. In fact there is STILL no mention of you on their website. What exactly is your relationship to Perfect Power Johannesburg? Do you have an agent or representative agreement, and, more importantly, is it exclusive? If you don't mind telling me, when exactly did it begin, and by that I mean the initial date of the term of the contract?

Just as a general comment, it's certainly not good business practice to greet potential new customers, especially the influential group that Jurgen has put together here, by threatening them. If your intention is really to make progress for Perfect Power in the U.S. market it would certainly be more productive to find some way to work with this group of people rather than delivering ultimatums. Your choice, of course.

And Mr. Tynnmann, I don't know who you are either, but I'd like to offer you the opportunity to reconsider your use of the word "scam". We have a general rule in these forums that people don't insult one another, and use of that word is a gross insult and absolutely inappropriate.

Tech support is good, of course, and your point is well taken, but consider that this group of professionals was willing to experiment even while thinking that the nearest tech support was in South Africa. That's the kind of interest and devotion that COULD be incredibly positive for Perfect Power. On the other hand if the attitude that you and Mr. Thornton have expressed in your posts is the way you do business with all your customers then I, at least, wouldn't want to deal with you in any form.

stevestromberg · Post by **stevestromberg** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 12:19 am

Kevin
No problem we can have Y3K arange to pick them up for us from the factory on his way back from The Rally.Steve Stromberg Ps you could sell them to us for the price Jay has gotten from PP It might be good PR

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Sun Apr 15, 2001 9:58 pm

If you are still interested in the group buy, please contact me. As far as I am concerned the group buy is still a "GO!"

I will reserve mud slinging to another time and place.

Regards,
Jay

Derrick from NC · Post by **Derrick from NC** » Fri Apr 20, 2001 8:05 am

Although the Perfect Power unit at $400 from the "new" PerfectPowerUSA distributor is still a good deal...the way this has gone down is starting to leave a real bad taste in my mouth.
Jay, you mentioned that you might be willing to nego another groupbuy deal elsewhere? How about that Holley Commander 850 ECU? Does anyone have any pos/neg experince with it? It's pricey at $1100 but maybe a groupbuy could get it down to the $550 range. I think we all know that Holley makes excellent products & someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they a good old made in the USA Co?

Rolf Ludwig · Post by **Rolf Ludwig** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 5:35 am

Excuse me guys. We have not been introduced. I am the Marketing Manager of Perfect Power SA. We are extensively involved in our local after market performance arena and work extensively with the local racing clubs. Sorry about the message length, but would like to set things straight as they are today. It feels like you guys started to play ball and called us in the locker room at half time with the score.

PP SA has made a booboo in the USA market as we have been setting up the Australian dealership as well as putting the final dots onto the ?I? and crossing the ?T? on our new MIC4 unit. We were planning to launch the MIC4 in the USA by middle June 2001 and for that reason have not been pushing the MIC3 unit that hard. PP SA will continue with the MIC3 for years to come; however the flagship will be the MIC4. WE FLUFFED UP!!.

Thanks to Ben Messinger, one of the group buy members, I have been filled in with all (I hope) details. Presently, as things are today, we are in the process of signing a contract with Kevin Thornton for PP USA. PP SA will honor the quotation for the group buy. The deal still stands.

Support will be gladly supplied by PP SA to anyone that emails [email protected] or goes online between 15:00 to 18:00 +2H GMT using AOL Instant Messanger, name is ?perfectpowpeter?. Peter Ludwig is the technical fuel injection wiz kid. Any questions are welcome.

Our web site, www.perfectpower.com will be updated soon to reflect the latest happenings.

Rolf Ludwig
MD
Digital Technology
[email protected]
[email protected]

Paul Illick · Post by **Paul Illick** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 7:46 am

"Called in at halftime" Mr. Ludwig? No, I'd say it would be more accurate to say that there was a game scheduled, but when our team showed up we found some other team on the field in our place, telling us that our game "WILL NOT take place", to quote your Mr. Thornton.

Unfortunately for me your new conciliatory position is too little and too late. There is a vote now being conducted by e-mail, and while there may be some people who stay in the group I know that a number of people, myself included, have no interest in working any further with you. To install your systems I would be investing much more of my own time and money than the initial purchase price, and to do that I need to have some reasonable confidence that Perfect Power would be there as my partner throughout the endeavor. Given the contradictions and changing positions I've seen you take in the few days I don't have that confidence, Mr. Ludwig. Your indication that you'll introduce a new model but but continue to support the MIC3 "for years to come" leaves me absolutely cold, further assuring me that I've made the right decision.

You might eventually be successful in the U.S. market and my doubts would disappear, who knows, but so far you've done absolutely nothing to convince me that we have anything to gain by assisting you in that process.

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 9:54 am

Hi, I'm one of the original group buy organizers. I personally have dropped out of the group buy. The primary reason for this is the actions and statements of Perfect Power. I have no problems personally with Perfect Power, its employees, and representatives. In the 3+ weeks I have been involved, the discussion has been clean and professional. However, the situation quickly soured when Peter and Kevin tried to force us to order from PP USA.

The fact remains, we were quoted group buy pricing DIRECT from Perfect Power SA. Kevin wants the business in the US. I have no problems with his position. He is trying to earn a living. However, for PP SA to back away from their offer and force us to order from the US rep is ridiculous and ILLEGAL. Mr. Ludwig, while your statement is very conciliatory, the damage has already been done. You said you would honor the buy, and then you backed out. Fine, you're trying to make up for the mistake, but the fact you even pulled this stunt makes me wonder. I am surprised you ever considered this position. On top of that, emails have conflicting statements. I will give you the benefit of doubt, and not call it outright lying.

Nevertheless, I am certain that a few members of the group buy will proceed with the order. Since I had no financial gain or otherwise from organizing this deal, I do not wish to interupt their decision. As I stated to the members, any attempt by myself to quell the entire group buy would only destroy the SPIRIT of the group buy: to enable a group of enthusiasts to purchase a good engine management system at a good price.

I reiterate my position: We were only trying to purchase the units at the agreed pricing. Nothing more and nothing less. The complications arose on your side. In the beginning, you nevered referred us to Kevin. You never mentioned anything of Perfect Power USA. If you had introduced us to Kevin in the beginning, the story would be entirely different.

That is my position.

Regards,
Jurgen 'Jay' Hartwig

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 10:02 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Derrick from NC:

Jay, you mentioned that you might be willing to nego another groupbuy deal elsewhere? How about that Holley Commander 850 ECU? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Derrick, I think I may have found a better ECU for the dollar. It is made in Australia, virtual hotbed for aftermarket ECUs. The market is tight down there, so the products are generally very good.

The Hawk EC21 is a simple system, but has robust features and capabilities. http://www.speed-technology.com/efi_ecu.html
The EC21 has very good injector drivers, a very good interface (requires laptop), and also supports OEM GM sensors (a huge advantage).

Their current price is approximately $515US, but if I can arrange a group buy, I might be able to get that price down further. I am also fielding offers for the Haltech E6K, Autronic SMC, and Wolf 3D, among others. I have already secured a group buy discount with SDS. Email me for details. I am not sure if SDS wants me to publish their pricing publicly.

[email protected]

Thanks
Jay

stevestromberg · Post by **stevestromberg** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 10:05 am

Jay, If you are pulling out ,I will do the same. F*** them. Rip up my cheque. I guess I will try the CSI system.I am game for other group purchses, we should form a CO-Op for more buying power on other Items as the need arises. Thank you for your effort on the FI system. Steve

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 1:40 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by stevestromberg:
Jay, If you are pulling out ,I will do the same. F*** them. Rip up my cheque. I guess I will try the CSI system.I am game for other group purchses, we should form a CO-Op for more buying power on other Items as the need arises. Thank you for your effort on the FI system. Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve, I'm leaving the decision up to the rest of the group buy members. If you have no issues with Perfect Power, I welcome you to buy from them. You already know how I feel. As a businessman, I try adhere to the highest standards of honesty and professionalism. I must also apply those standards to sellers with which I deal.

What is the CSI system? I am still looking for quality engine management systems, and several of the guys who backed out are still interested in a group buy. With 10 or more buyers, most of the vendors are talking about 15-25% discounts, which can save us all a lot of money, not to mention the fact installing the same system on similar engines will be very beneficial.

Jay

Derrick from NC · Post by **Derrick from NC** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 3:31 pm

Jay,
Keep me informed on whoever you develope a group deal with. Whoever you nego adeal with if you can see if their ignition control will work with the standard 009 or other distributor like the PerfectPower. Correct me if I'm wrong but the SDS engine management requires a crankfired ignition and if your like me I have enough fabrication to do with the intake & exhaust for the turbo engine I would prefer a system that does not require but can be upgraded to crankfire when I'm ready.

Paul Illick · Post by **Paul Illick** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 5:31 pm

Just to be clear I'm still up for a group purchase too, just not from Perfect Power. I've asked for an installation manual and more tech info from Hawk and will post in the groups if/when it gets here.

turbo6bar · Post by **turbo6bar** » Sun Apr 22, 2001 7:10 pm

Derrick, now I may be incorrect, but the SDS comes in various "flavors." When you purchase a system, you specify the type of ignition you wish to run, and the number of cylinders. SDS then configures each ECU to your specifications. If you want to change that setup, you may need some ECU work. That is how I interpret their systems, but I may be wrong. On the other hand, all the other premium engine management setups give maximum flexibility with regards to ignition and number of cylinders. Why? A lot of guys using Haltech, Autronic, etc. are replacing existing stock EFI. Since a lot of these cars have distributors (read older sports cars), Haltech and the others give you the option to run a dizzy.

Paul, when all the smoke clears, we will resume our search for the best fuel injection setup. I have already contacted "The Hitman," renowned Haltech tuner of Australia. Within the next 24-48 hours, I should be getting some information regarding a Haltech group buy. Additionally, since we're going for a new system, I'm going to drop notes in every online forum I can find, looking for more members.

I appreciate everyone's support and patience. I will strive to ensure everyone's satisfaction. I share your desire for excellence.

Regards,
Jay

PS> I plan to expand the website and build a short repository of ideas and information to make installation and tuning easier. I feel information about ignition options, fuel injectors, sensors, and intake manifolds will be extremely valuable.

Peter Ludwig · Post by **Peter Ludwig** » Mon Apr 23, 2001 1:36 am

Hi Guys

Well it looks that I'm the big goof here.
After reading all the correspondence I have managed to peeve allot of people off .
I do say on that note that I do apologies and that I seriously goofed up.
I am only now fully aware of the facts concerning all the group buy members and what the story is . I was not in complete awareness of all the facts. Thanks to Ben Messinger and all the mail we received I am now aware of my mistakes.
As I said before we WILL still honor, I WILL honor the price originally quoted.
I know that I have pissed every body off but if some units are still going to be purchased we have the support system already setup. Plus I am standby for any assistance if needed.

My aplogies guys .
Best regards
Peter.

BergRace · Post by **BergRace** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:43 pm

Personally I am still looking at the Perfect Power MIC3 due to the ease of direct comunication AND price.
I however do not live in the U.S. And will therefore order directly from SA.

For those that will be looking at other systems, take a look at the Autronic, it is second on my list, due to it's much higher price.However the guy used to work with Motec, so you get the idea of the level...

I hope Perfect Power will inform us when the MIC4 unit is available from SA. (For the non American market).

J.

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-56 T1 hopefully soon with a F.I. T4 (AN engine)