Marc
"90 without sounding like it will explode? that sounds like Highway speeds to me, so yes that what I?m looking for. When the time comes I will get a new trany, and it will probably be stock. Look dude I?m a noob at this! Sorry if my lingo isn?t up to par with yours so cut me some slack! Your first post to me had an edge on it! Jeepers! I thought I was making myself clear: high 90s, 70mph for long periods of time, I live in Texas were it?s hot and everything is freaking far away! We don?t have ricers & I?m not looking to impress them or anyone else, I?m just trying to make this thing handle and act like a sports car not a muscle car, dragster or ricer.
I hope that was straight. Just in case?.. High speed travel is what I?m looking for.
Heck im just asking for some friendly advice, I didn?t think I would have to be so on guard to get answers!
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
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Marc
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Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
Sorry that you took offense but put yourself at the other end of this for a second. We aren't mind-readers! Happy to give advice and opinion but first the question has to be defined. I don't know what "without sounding like it will explode" means to you - I build engines that can run all day at `way over 5000RPM and to me they sound pretty sweet - haven't exploded any either.
The trans you have now is the tallest-geared one that VW ever put in a Beetle/SuperBeetle but you will be able to go ~6% taller safely when the time comes by using one with the 4th gear that came in late `Ghias. There is one taller choice, a bus 4th, but I recommend against it. Because of the tall ring & pinion ratio that you have you don't want to go with too much of a cam. The combination that Darth proposed for a 1915 should serve you well (Premium fuel only at that C.R., though!) - the only quibble I have with it is that you don't really need the huge high-dollar muffler with 1 1/2" pipes, I'd run 1 5/8" with that much carb, head, and cam. Price all of that stuff out and see if it looks like what you can handle - if it's more money than you want to spend we can discuss where you could cut back.
BTW I doubt that you'll find anyone here who'll endorse the Scat kits for what you have in mind.
The trans you have now is the tallest-geared one that VW ever put in a Beetle/SuperBeetle but you will be able to go ~6% taller safely when the time comes by using one with the 4th gear that came in late `Ghias. There is one taller choice, a bus 4th, but I recommend against it. Because of the tall ring & pinion ratio that you have you don't want to go with too much of a cam. The combination that Darth proposed for a 1915 should serve you well (Premium fuel only at that C.R., though!) - the only quibble I have with it is that you don't really need the huge high-dollar muffler with 1 1/2" pipes, I'd run 1 5/8" with that much carb, head, and cam. Price all of that stuff out and see if it looks like what you can handle - if it's more money than you want to spend we can discuss where you could cut back.
BTW I doubt that you'll find anyone here who'll endorse the Scat kits for what you have in mind.
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Pepper
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
?We aren't mind-readers!? I understand what you are saying, and I apologize. This is ware I?m at. I need to start building on this thing; I just had it line bored now I need to by a 1776 kit. But when it comes to cams, valves, springs, and heads I really don?t know the questions to ask or how to ask them lol. Their isn?t anyone here ware I live who I can talk to, or get any consultation on what I need to do next. I have a great mechanically inclined father in-law, and son in-law who wants to learn (me), and a small budget. So how do I find out what kind of heads, valve/springs, and cam I will need?
I want it to be durable & fast; peeling out at red lights is not it.
I want it to be durable & fast; peeling out at red lights is not it.
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Marc
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Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
So maybe Darth's 1915 is too spendy...what kind of budget do you have for carburetion and heads?
And before we go any further, what's the serial number of theis engine case and what size line-bore did it need?
And before we go any further, what's the serial number of theis engine case and what size line-bore did it need?
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jasonb
- Posts: 761
- Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2001 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
Here's my opinion.
1776: will allow you to keep your stock heads and heater boxes. Throw away the stock exhaust and run it with a merged exhaust. You should put a new cam in there like a Web 218 or Engle 110. If you do this you need to upgrade the carbs. 1776 is the perfect size for a pair of Kadrons and they're inexpensive. Run the compression around 8.5 and you WILL feel the increase in torque. When people think of "sports car" feel they're usually thinking of torque (low down power). I do recommend a counter balanced crank, full flow, single HD springs, solid rocker shafts and maybe an oil cooler but each one of these upgrades is at your own discretion.
1914: People are fond of saying that it costs the same as a 1776 but in reality you really should add larger valved heads, larger exhaust, larger carbs. All of which cost money so they don't really cost the same. If you're looking at spending money on these items already then 1914 is your ticket.
Big Power: You can certainly make big power in these two little engines but as the power increases so do the rpm. Meaning, you'll be reving higher to get to that power. This requires more money to ensure that your valve train and other internal components can handle the stress. Additionally you'll have to ask yourself if you really want to wind your engine up to 7000rpm. I like to be able to hear my radio. If you're looking for BIG power, you're looking for a stroker and that's a whole other can of worms.
The nice thing about the 1776 is that it allows you to delay spending money on big-power components but it can still give you a kick in the pants. I love mine, although it's giving me fantasies about a turboed stroker now.
1776
Demello 69mm Counter balanced crankshaft
Stock heads (have the ports flowed later on)
Single HD valve springs (aircooled.net)
Solid rocker shafts
Web 218 camshaft
8.6:1 compression
Full flow external oil filter
Kadron carbs (match-port the manifolds to the heads)
Merged 1 3/8" exhaust (pay for the ceramic coating)
premium gas
stock everything else
Simple, inexpensive and fun to drive.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by jasonb (edited 10-04-2002).]
1776: will allow you to keep your stock heads and heater boxes. Throw away the stock exhaust and run it with a merged exhaust. You should put a new cam in there like a Web 218 or Engle 110. If you do this you need to upgrade the carbs. 1776 is the perfect size for a pair of Kadrons and they're inexpensive. Run the compression around 8.5 and you WILL feel the increase in torque. When people think of "sports car" feel they're usually thinking of torque (low down power). I do recommend a counter balanced crank, full flow, single HD springs, solid rocker shafts and maybe an oil cooler but each one of these upgrades is at your own discretion.
1914: People are fond of saying that it costs the same as a 1776 but in reality you really should add larger valved heads, larger exhaust, larger carbs. All of which cost money so they don't really cost the same. If you're looking at spending money on these items already then 1914 is your ticket.
Big Power: You can certainly make big power in these two little engines but as the power increases so do the rpm. Meaning, you'll be reving higher to get to that power. This requires more money to ensure that your valve train and other internal components can handle the stress. Additionally you'll have to ask yourself if you really want to wind your engine up to 7000rpm. I like to be able to hear my radio. If you're looking for BIG power, you're looking for a stroker and that's a whole other can of worms.
The nice thing about the 1776 is that it allows you to delay spending money on big-power components but it can still give you a kick in the pants. I love mine, although it's giving me fantasies about a turboed stroker now.
1776
Demello 69mm Counter balanced crankshaft
Stock heads (have the ports flowed later on)
Single HD valve springs (aircooled.net)
Solid rocker shafts
Web 218 camshaft
8.6:1 compression
Full flow external oil filter
Kadron carbs (match-port the manifolds to the heads)
Merged 1 3/8" exhaust (pay for the ceramic coating)
premium gas
stock everything else
Simple, inexpensive and fun to drive.
Hope this helps.
[This message has been edited by jasonb (edited 10-04-2002).]
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fredybear
- Posts: 829
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2002 1:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
ill add to that.....dump the 218....go to a web 118 or 119....call web cam....dont waste money on the ceramic...cr at 8:1...14 lb flywheel...1:1 rockers....anyone else?
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Fredy-
55 bug-
63 bug-
67-bug sunroof
68-bug
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Fredy-
55 bug-
63 bug-
67-bug sunroof
68-bug
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Marc
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Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
I'm guessin' that fredybear's specs are coming closer to what Pepper can handle for his first build. Still concerned about whether his case is worthy though.
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Piledriver
- Moderator
- Posts: 22777
- Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
I hope I won't get skewered too hard for straying from the Type4um, but it sounds like he needs a stockish 2.0 T4 with Webers.
70-90 in about 4-5 seconds, and should go 150K miles in a bug. Run all day at 80+ MPH, stop for gas and actually touch the motor...Like put your palm on the block, no masochistic tendancies required.
Come on over and look around.
Even a stock 1.7 in a 71 SB is a blast, a 2.0 is a WHOLE different beast tho.
70-90 in about 4-5 seconds, and should go 150K miles in a bug. Run all day at 80+ MPH, stop for gas and actually touch the motor...Like put your palm on the block, no masochistic tendancies required.
Come on over and look around.
Even a stock 1.7 in a 71 SB is a blast, a 2.0 is a WHOLE different beast tho.
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James2
- Posts: 3148
- Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
No, go back and read, they ARE Scat lifters, plus add the set of SCAT lifters I had go bad.
DO A SEARCH HERE. The problem is well known.
Scat lifters=flat cam.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sinikl:
<B> if y'r talkin about the post from the guy today, he said the lifters were unlabeled in a ziploc baggie from the local shop. so that doesn't prove anything about scat. there was a foto a while back on the clf of some ok-lookin scat lifters with 10k miles on it.
one post isn't gonna prove or disprove anything, but i will say james2 seems to be right that judging from the clf quality control seems to vary wildly with the scat lifters. find a shop that stands behind their product (like the guy on the clf with the ziploc lifters.... the shop bought him a new cam, lifters, etc to make it up to him).
sean
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
DO A SEARCH HERE. The problem is well known.
Scat lifters=flat cam.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sinikl:
<B> if y'r talkin about the post from the guy today, he said the lifters were unlabeled in a ziploc baggie from the local shop. so that doesn't prove anything about scat. there was a foto a while back on the clf of some ok-lookin scat lifters with 10k miles on it.
one post isn't gonna prove or disprove anything, but i will say james2 seems to be right that judging from the clf quality control seems to vary wildly with the scat lifters. find a shop that stands behind their product (like the guy on the clf with the ziploc lifters.... the shop bought him a new cam, lifters, etc to make it up to him).
sean
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Pepper
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
Hay Marc
Sorry so late on the reply. My case is A AS41, with the #043101101A right below it. My budget for the carbs will me about $400. I had the case machined; the dude machined it to (this is the part that I might say wrong) .040 for the bearing seats? Than he machined the ?throw out? to .040 or 40, it was 40 somthing anyway my budget for my heads is $400. No heater boxes, and I might run a remote oil cooler.
Sorry so late on the reply. My case is A AS41, with the #043101101A right below it. My budget for the carbs will me about $400. I had the case machined; the dude machined it to (this is the part that I might say wrong) .040 for the bearing seats? Than he machined the ?throw out? to .040 or 40, it was 40 somthing anyway my budget for my heads is $400. No heater boxes, and I might run a remote oil cooler.
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Pepper
- Posts: 68
- Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
Realistically I?ll probably spend about $550-600 bucks on heads,,
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BUGMAN II
- Posts: 648
- Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2002 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
new 44 idfs go for less than $500
check out c.b. performance cnc 044 heads $700
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SCRAPIN' THE APRON
check out c.b. performance cnc 044 heads $700
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SCRAPIN' THE APRON
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fredybear
- Posts: 829
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2002 1:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
with all that cash...just go up to a 2007....
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Fredy-
55 bug-
63 bug-
67-bug sunroof
68-bug
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Fredy-
55 bug-
63 bug-
67-bug sunroof
68-bug
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
And thus the basis for Marc's original quandary. If you ask 14 VW folks you'll get 14 different answers, some more viable than others.
1776? 1914? 2007? 2165? 2332? Type 4? Where will it end?
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to build an engine that will give oyu low end power or high end power. Just rememeebr that the engine is a unit, a whole. Making it a 1914 vs. a 1716 vs. a 2165 will not majically make it better wor worse, more reliable or less. I doubt Pepper has any more information than he came with, and is no less confused.
On of the easiest ways to get the engine you want is to rely on a true professional. Not a fly-by-night or weekend- warrior engine builder, and not a high-volume warehouse either. I'm talking about the few custom engine shops in the country who build quality stuff for a living, can't afford to pay for a lot of advertising, and are too busy working to make a pretty web site.
The idea I'm pitching here is to call up a real professional and tell him "I live in West Texas where it gets really hot, and I want an engine for my Bug that I can drive on the freeway without getting run over. I will never drag race it, but I want more power than I need." Then write them a check and wait for the engine to arrive. Let them make the real decisions, rather than all of the armchair quarterbacks that are piping up to give you "info/advice" (including me).
This will require a certain amount of trust on your part, so call a place that has the best word of mouth reputation. I have listed a few below, but these are certainly not the only ones. However, if it were MY money I was spending, my list would be this short of those I would call.
Jake Raby at www.aircooledtechnology.com
John Conoly at www.aircooled.net
Jason Lauffer at www.vwparadise.com
Boston Engine Exchange
Mary Staggs at www.stagsracing.com
Muffler Mike Sheldon at www.mufflermike.com
Engine Machine Service
8416 Osage Ave. Los Angles, Ca. 90045
Phone (310) 641-7019 Fax (310) 641-4958
These guys have all proven time and time again they are professionals, knowledgable and talented at what they do, build engines. It's doubtfull that whatever one of these guys does for you, no one will say it was wrong.
As for my armchair opinion?
I stay with the 1914. You want a little less cost, try this out.
- 1914 94x69
- AJ Simms 35x32 single port street heads
- 40mm Kadrons by AJ Simms, or ICTs
- WebCam 110/163 split duration
- 1 1/2" header with 2 1/2" phat-boy (I love the look and sound of this thing).
- SVDA with Compufire and CDI.
- still run a tight deck of .050-.045, and with 57cc chambers you'll have 8.3-8.4:1 compression.
You want torque. You'll have torque. The single port heads will outlast the dual ports in the heat by far. The split duration cam will make up for any reduction in flow of the single ports. The carbs by AJ Simms, well he uses them on his race car and is the guru of Kads.
Another option, though an unpopular one, would be to run a progressive on this thing.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Darth Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." --
Joe Locicero a.k.a. Joe of the West
1776? 1914? 2007? 2165? 2332? Type 4? Where will it end?
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to build an engine that will give oyu low end power or high end power. Just rememeebr that the engine is a unit, a whole. Making it a 1914 vs. a 1716 vs. a 2165 will not majically make it better wor worse, more reliable or less. I doubt Pepper has any more information than he came with, and is no less confused.
On of the easiest ways to get the engine you want is to rely on a true professional. Not a fly-by-night or weekend- warrior engine builder, and not a high-volume warehouse either. I'm talking about the few custom engine shops in the country who build quality stuff for a living, can't afford to pay for a lot of advertising, and are too busy working to make a pretty web site.
The idea I'm pitching here is to call up a real professional and tell him "I live in West Texas where it gets really hot, and I want an engine for my Bug that I can drive on the freeway without getting run over. I will never drag race it, but I want more power than I need." Then write them a check and wait for the engine to arrive. Let them make the real decisions, rather than all of the armchair quarterbacks that are piping up to give you "info/advice" (including me).
This will require a certain amount of trust on your part, so call a place that has the best word of mouth reputation. I have listed a few below, but these are certainly not the only ones. However, if it were MY money I was spending, my list would be this short of those I would call.
Jake Raby at www.aircooledtechnology.com
John Conoly at www.aircooled.net
Jason Lauffer at www.vwparadise.com
Boston Engine Exchange
Mary Staggs at www.stagsracing.com
Muffler Mike Sheldon at www.mufflermike.com
Engine Machine Service
8416 Osage Ave. Los Angles, Ca. 90045
Phone (310) 641-7019 Fax (310) 641-4958
These guys have all proven time and time again they are professionals, knowledgable and talented at what they do, build engines. It's doubtfull that whatever one of these guys does for you, no one will say it was wrong.
As for my armchair opinion?
I stay with the 1914. You want a little less cost, try this out.
- 1914 94x69
- AJ Simms 35x32 single port street heads
- 40mm Kadrons by AJ Simms, or ICTs
- WebCam 110/163 split duration
- 1 1/2" header with 2 1/2" phat-boy (I love the look and sound of this thing).
- SVDA with Compufire and CDI.
- still run a tight deck of .050-.045, and with 57cc chambers you'll have 8.3-8.4:1 compression.
You want torque. You'll have torque. The single port heads will outlast the dual ports in the heat by far. The split duration cam will make up for any reduction in flow of the single ports. The carbs by AJ Simms, well he uses them on his race car and is the guru of Kads.
Another option, though an unpopular one, would be to run a progressive on this thing.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Darth Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." --
Joe Locicero a.k.a. Joe of the West
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Marc
- Moderator
- Posts: 23741
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 12:01 am
Heads, valves, springs, cams?????
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pepper:
My case is A AS41, with the #043101101A right below it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So presumably the engine SERIAL number starts with AK and you have factory-installed 8mm headstuds. The case has been line-bored to .040" (1.0mm) oversize, which is as far as you can go and still get decent bearings. The thrust saddle for #1 main bearing has also been cut 1.0mm.
Bottom line is, this is the last build of any quality that this case is good for.
Don't be surprised if one of the first things you hear is to replace the case.
I wouldn't even recommend using it for the much more conservative 1775 that I was going to propose without inspecting it personally.
My case is A AS41, with the #043101101A right below it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So presumably the engine SERIAL number starts with AK and you have factory-installed 8mm headstuds. The case has been line-bored to .040" (1.0mm) oversize, which is as far as you can go and still get decent bearings. The thrust saddle for #1 main bearing has also been cut 1.0mm.
Bottom line is, this is the last build of any quality that this case is good for.
Don't be surprised if one of the first things you hear is to replace the case.
I wouldn't even recommend using it for the much more conservative 1775 that I was going to propose without inspecting it personally.