Berg cranks...worth the money?

[Vgonman]

I use a lot of Berg parts.........I have read the tech writings and the catalog, and yes, they do generally have a tone that their stuff is the best......well, yes, it is..but as in the tech writings on stroker cranks, he says others may fare well, but not as good as his........now for me, $1500 for a crank is a lot of money..but, $500 for a crank leaves me another thousand for the rest of the case, cam, p and c etc. (not counting heads).........so, these comments are really helpful

[JohnConnolly]

"What have you done for us lately".

Stop living in "the past", and do some interesting and progressive stuff NOW.

Nuff' Said

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

[JohnConnolly]

The problem is also this. Like I said above, I do feel their cranks are THE BEST.

DO YOU NEED ONE? I sure as hell don't, I haven't "needed one" on any engine I've built, incuding 400+hp turbo engines, where SCAT cranks have held up fine.

While the information in their catalog may be "correct", it's very misleading to the neophite, since it indicated their engine will self destruct if you don't use all Berg parts, and this is simply not the case.

Perhaps this is because almost everything in their catalog was writting during a period hwen a LOT of garbage parts were being sold to the general public. I am not embarrassed or ashamed of anything I've written about the Bergs or GBE, but it IS time they stopped living in the 70s and 80s. It's also time they revised their catalog. They ARE arrogant, at least thats the way they come across if you read their descriptions on everything in there (I personally .......). Remember, the difference between confidence and arrogance is drawn by the READER (not the speaker), so their confidence may be easily received as arrogance based on their delivery.

their catalog needs a re-write. they do not need to PREACH about how much better their parts are, we don't have AS MUCH junk being sold out there. Just tone it down a bit, they'll still get the point across.

The only other problem I've had with them is ANY failure of any of their parts is either

1) an installation mistake

2) I broke it.

I've never, EVER seen them admit to mistakes on anything, and NOBODY is that good. It's what's driven a lot of their customers away.

I believe they've been absolutely great for the VW Industry in the past. Their attitudes and "clinginess" to the past is HURTING the VW Industry now.

Either shite or get off the pot.

The Berg-Nazis already don't like me, but I don't play favorites. I give GBE credit when they deserve it, and give them criticism when they deserve it (my opinion).

Talking about what you did back then doesn't help us now. I just see too much living on their "reputation" and it's not good business to do this.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sinikl:
<B> my take on what you said is this: at least berg gives you _details_ about the parts to help you make a decision. he also does imply others' parts are inferior, and that gets to be a bit of a drag, but most of the time i felt i could filter some of that stuff out and just focus on the data about his products he's giving you. it doesn't seem like any of the other aftermarket ppl are interested in detailed product descriptions (at least not in written form), so there's no way to compare their stuff to berg -- it makes you suspect their quality.

example: the stuff about the metal graining in the forging of his cranks was really mostly going over my head. however, once you read thru it a few times you really start to understand it, and understand moreover that a lot of work went into his crank. now take a cb crank or a bugpack crank or a dms crank or whatever -- very little to NO lengthy description provided by the manufacturer. scat pretty much sells their cranks by saying "yup, it's a crankshaft, all right".... now i know from talking to ppl that the cb, bugpack and dms cranks seem to be living allright and are quality pieces, but if i didn't have a place like this to ask newbie questions, how would i know?? i would buy berg stuff, because he makes the effort to tell you what goes into EACH AND EVERY part.

the bergs do imply others' products are inferior, but at the same time, you know exactly what's in their stuff so you aren't getting fleeced at all.

what we need is a dialogue, where the other ppl come back and say, "no, i don't have my cranks forged in sweden by an oem porsche supplier, but so what? my cranks have lived x miles in a motor making y horsepower that is daily driven on the surface of the sun" or something like that. that lends credibility.

i think berg has nice stuff and a great catalog, i just can't afford it. but i think the catalog should be a model for the rest of the industry. i'm buying my tranny mounts from them because they explain WHY i should and why i SHOULDN't use something else instead of just listing a part no and a price. not trying to flame either berg or any other manufacturer, just my .02.

sean</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Mitch]

The stuff on the market now is worst in quality then it was back in the day, for example read the interviews in the Sept VW Trends. I've seen it myself in the last 15 years.

Take your EE or ME degree or whatever and go prove your theories. I don't want to hear, it takes money or other lame excuse. "Crap or get off the pot!"

I agree with some of your ideas and some I do not, just like Berg's. You seem to have a personal problem with GBI, but that's your boggle. Like someone said in a pervious post read it, ingest it, take what you want out of it. Look at Bob Hoover, people think he is some kind of VW god too. I don't, but I'm not going to harp on it.

I think GBI has changed some of their mind set since Gene's passing. The Berg's must be doing something right to be in business for this long.

[joe of centorg]

I have had Two Scat flange cranks crack (not snap in half), but these things cost over a grand for the whole system.

I expect more for my money than some good thrashing, then a bench ornament, (maybe I'll make a pair of lamps).


When I get to the point of ordering bulk, (10 or more custom cranks) for the Oxyboxers/Wasserboxers. I'm going to deal with the Bergs, as they understand the quality/molecular grain structure of a crankshaft.
I also do weld-ups based on original forgings, but these have their limits.
-I say good day- Joe

[This message has been edited by joe of centorg (edited 08-27-2002).]

[Tom Notch]

I like my Berg crank. I got lucky and bought it used from somebody that had been out of "the Scene" for awhile. So I got it reasonably priced.

One thing that I have noticed about what Berg said about other people's stuff, Berg Never made it personnal that I have seen. Berg never used the "others" name in their writings.

------------------
Tom Notch
Tom's Old VW Home

[JohnConnolly]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. The important thing (again, MY opinion) is that people form their opinions from their experiences. It's very easy for 2 different people, with 2 totally different sets of experiences, to draw different conclusions (imagine that), and neither is "wrong".

You can make fun of my EE/ME degree all you want (what's YOURS?), you are entitled to that. Many people respect it, it's a SOB to get that sheepskin.

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

[MASSIVE TYPE IV]

I'm in it with John on this one, we are fighting the same battle..

Remember, this is 2002!!

------------------
Jake Raby
Raby's Aircooled Technology
www.aircooledtechnology.com

[stkrmtr]

I have nothing bad to say about their parts and that speaks for itself. They were the innovators for along time. What happened? I figured with Gene's passing that his sons would really get out there and shake things up. Really get some new stuff out there to try and get out of their father's shadow. Nothing could be further from the opposite-I think the only new product is a billet flower vase-SS

[Mitch]

I have a Satellite System Operations degree and I'm working on my aerospace engineering degree now. Im a satellite system engineer with a huge aerospace company.

I'm planning on building a turbo motor for a daily driver, if that's totally against the Bergs philosophy I don't know what is.

[This message has been edited by Mitch (edited 08-27-2002).]

[bug nut]

dan for your information the c.n.c head was first done by a guy in indy name Kenny Weld.
so you can go to bat for thee bergs.
just rember to call between 8am and 11am
because they haft to eat lunch to or you can call after 12am to 5pm and please have customer number ready.

[JohnConnolly]

hey, you have to understand that everyone gets their share of criticism! I get some too, the key is what you do with it. You can say "bullshit, there's no problem" and do nothing, or you can listen to it and try to "fix" whatever they are complaining about. I know Jake has guys that give him shite (welcome to the limelight) too, so everyone gets hit with criticism, some deserved, some not.

Also, I want to clarify on the Berg crank, I'm NOT criticizing the crank! It is the best, I just feel it's not needed for 99% of the guys that need a crankshaft, when they can buy a $450 crank that will serve them well. If you have an extra $800 to burn, go for it. There are plenty of guys with $2k skis that can't go down a blue run (they are beginners), or someone else (you probably know someone) with a $4k computer that they do nothing but e-mail on! LOL, that's their business. I'm just trying to inform and educate people that a nice engine doesn't have to cost $15k!

John
Aircooled.Net Inc.

[This message has been edited by JohnConnolly (edited 08-27-2002).]

[flatfour]

Don't forget if you move to be sure let them know your new address immediately, LOL.

I use some of Berg's parts, but I agree with posts above. Other companies parts can work and live too.

[63ragtop]

Man this thread is great. I especially love the way Mitch pulls the old "Im gonna tell my mommy" routine and says, "Ill tell Clyde the next time I see him". If thats not name dropping at its finest, I don't know what it is. I don't have a whole lot of experience with Berg stuff, but c'mon......50 dollars for an oil pump cover? If that is a sign of how they do things.....No way. It may be good, but It cant be that much better....Oh wait, I forgot, they know about the bi-directional thermonucelacticity of the base metal used in their crank shafts. Man, I just get irritated when I see people getting personally attacked for stating an oppinion........Johns college Degree has nothing to do with his oppinion or experience in the vw community.

[bug nut]

Spoken like a true 全ろば !