So Who makes a good Crank?

stealth67vw · Post by **stealth67vw** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 10:38 pm

What is your intended usage? If it is going in a daily driver and will only be used at the strip once in awhile? You would be fine with an 8 dowelled CB,Demello,DPR or a low end Scat. Once you start doing drag type launches(7k-dump the clutch)consider wedgemating. A flanged cranked motor is not something you could drive everyday. They don't use flywheel shims and the rear thrust bearing wears faster, and you wouldn't be able to use you stock weight flywheel. I have a Bugpack flanged 84. It is a pretty nice crank. I have about $1500 into the whole setup-crank, Eagle rods ,flanged flywheel, ARP bolts, main bearings(T4 center)and the pilot bearing. Unless you really plan on beating the crap out of your motor(like I do) you ain't gonna need a flanged crank.

sinistervw · Post by **sinistervw** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:08 pm

so what if i am going o have a 375Hp-425Hp engine, but im never going to drop it from 7k...wont do any windup clutch drops at all...only a progressive rpm increase as clutch is released, and this engine will never see anything over 7000Rpm, so i can use a good CB or good 4340 scat? does rimco do wedgmating?

stealth67vw · Post by **stealth67vw** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 11:28 pm

I don't believe you will need a wedged or flanged crank if your not going to dump the clutch. The shock load is the main reason for going to either of these. If there won't be a great shockload don't bother. Rimco does NOT do wedgemating. I heard Bud Whitfield in Sac does though. With 375-425hp, obviously turboed-don't skimp on the crank or rods if you want it to last. I have never used a CB crank but have seen 3 or 4 with the dowells ovaled, maybe soft metal!?!I personally prefer Bugpack over Scat. Sure Scats are prettier but from what I have seen Bugpacks are stronger. I have seen quite a few cracked Scat cranks(1 my own), but have never seen a Bugpack cracked. There is a guy on the CLF that swears by Demello full circle cranks. He is using one in his 500hp 10.06 @141 street car. One more thing- what fun is 400hp if your not going to beat on it?

evil_vw · Post by **evil_vw** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 12:07 am

375 to 425 hp huh? ooooooooook. you obviously need to do your homework a bit there, son. you got $12 to $15 K to pop for a motor? no? then stop with the 400+ hp crap, grab a few good books, make a few phone calls, save for about 17 years and get yourself a quality built 120- 125 hp 1914cc somewhere in the $3500- $4000 neck of the woods. (425 hp. sheesh.)

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"OK, got the duct tape, JB weld, bailing wire, and a big hammer- everything should be fine."

mharney · Post by **mharney** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:10 am

Sinister, please do not take this as less than constructive criticism. I only intend to bring you down to the real world.

For a person that is ready to build a 400HP engine, the questions should not be as fundamental as what kind of crank you should get, especially when you say you want it to last.

400HP in a Bug is really no laughing matter. It takes a LOT of money, knowledge, and time. It's also something that most people cannot keep on the road. You can lose control of 400HP in a heartbeat, and somehow I can't see you driving a 400 horse Bug as a daily driver without killing yourself. I personally don't feel that you have the experience based on your questions and what I've read from you in the past.

I think you should be more realistic and shoot for 200HP if you want reliable and damn fast. I don't know where you got that kind of HP figure in your head, but you better have a lot of experience and KNOWLEDGE under your belt, not just information like you are trying to get here.

If you think I'm full of beans, go ahead and post the specs of what your engine will have in it from stem to stern and let use have a guess at what you'll get out of it. Realizing that these are only our opinions, remember you are asking.

As for cranks, 400HP would really like a flanged crank. I have a feeling it would be too hard for you to keep from dumping the clutch, and shearing your flywheel right off the crank, provided that you really do build an engine with that much juice. To be more realistic, a 200HP engine would be fine with a GOOD standard type crank (CW, 8 dowel, wedgemate if you want to really dump on it).

JMO, and take it for what it's worth, Percocet and all (just had some bastardly surgery).

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68 Beetle, 70 Karmann Ghia
My VW Page

Tom Perso · Post by **Tom Perso** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 4:40 pm

90-100hp in a Bug gets things moving real quick.

I've driven one with about 140hp, and it is DAMNED quick, quicker than you really need.

400hp?

400hp in an American full sized car is scary fast. Tires just can't handle it.

I'd say shoot for 150-180. 200hp is even kind of tough.

But, thats my opinion, and well - it could stink.

Later,
Tom

britegreenVWSB · Post by **britegreenVWSB** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 5:41 pm

Sinister,
Have you ever ridden in a high-horspower street Bug? Your desire of 400hp tells me that you haven't. I've ridden in a couple of these cars, and the second fastest street car of ANY type was a '69 Bug with a 2110 that made about 150hp. It also had a close-ratio Berg 5-speed. This car was mess-your-shorts fast. I wouldn't want a street car much faster than this one. The absolute fastest car I've ever ridden in? A friend in high school had a '71 Mustang Mach 1 with a 351C in it that he had bored out to as big as you could go. I don't know the CI of it or the hp it had, but one ride in that car was enough for me. Be careful what you wish for... Best wishes!

TG

sinistervw · Post by **sinistervw** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:32 pm

heres what im planing. i will just list the stuff that matters (no seals and stuff like that)

ac.net Aluminum case bored for 94's and full flow $475.00 (still debating on this)
Scat 5.500" H-beams Chevy Journals $349.95
Bugpack Flanged 82mm with flywheel T-4 mains and Chevy rod Journals $1230.85
ac.net 26mm gear aluminum oil pump FF $40.00
as.net 2qt low profile deep sump kit $69.95
CB super mag plus cut for 94's ( going to use better springs, valves and keepers, and retainers) $284.95 (w/o new valves, ect)
cut to length chromolly push rods $43.95
Scat racing lifters $85.95
LN biral babies Kit w/Pistons $1448.00
48 IDF manifolds (pair) $74.95
Dual 48mm Jenevy Throttle bodies, IDF flange $383.09
Mid engine TO3 Turbo header $279.95
Airesearch TO3 Turbo $479.95

theres some things not on here such as the MSD control box and Ditributor, and the ECU for the FI, but the general idea is there

stealth67vw · Post by **stealth67vw** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:33 pm

In 1990 I rode in Rob Case's blue 57 oval(hotVWs1991). It had a turboed 2276 with NOS(rated @ 380 and 460w/NOS). The car ran a 10.86 @ 129 in street trim. This car wasn't even fun it was so fast. It would break the tires loose in 3rd gear if you floored it just cruising along. Take baby steps. With experience comes wisdom.

mharney · Post by **mharney** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 6:48 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sinistervw:
<B>heres what im planing. i will just list the stuff that matters (no seals and stuff like that)

ac.net Aluminum case bored for 94's and full flow $475.00 (still debating on this)
Scat 5.500" H-beams Chevy Journals $349.95
Bugpack Flanged 82mm with flywheel T-4 mains and Chevy rod Journals $1230.85
ac.net 26mm gear aluminum oil pump FF $40.00
as.net 2qt low profile deep sump kit $69.95
CB super mag plus cut for 94's ( going to use better springs, valves and keepers, and retainers) $284.95 (w/o new valves, ect)
cut to length chromolly push rods $43.95
Scat racing lifters $85.95
LN biral babies Kit w/Pistons $1448.00
48 IDF manifolds (pair) $74.95
Dual 48mm Jenevy Throttle bodies, IDF flange $383.09
Mid engine TO3 Turbo header $279.95
Airesearch TO3 Turbo $479.95

theres some things not on here such as the MSD control box and Ditributor, and the ECU for the FI, but the general idea is there</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok, so T03 with 2275 and you want to run 400HP as a reliable driver? 40 bucks doesn't buy much of a pump my friend, better get a blueprinted one. You want that stuff to last? What are you doing for a cam?

400 HP from this setup? Good luck with that. I'll be interested to see it.

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68 Beetle, 70 Karmann Ghia
My VW Page

sinistervw · Post by **sinistervw** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:02 pm

Engle FK-8

sinistervw · Post by **sinistervw** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:04 pm

Engle FK-8, but ya all are right...just got back from my friends who has a 400Hp Cudda...theres no way i could handle that much power in a 1800-2200Lb bug...i had my head up my arse a bit. i think i will do the same set up with more compression but NA and a scat flanged or somethig

Marty · Post by **Marty** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:31 pm

My last sedan had 350 HP.
Have you ever driven on ice?
It was not quite that bad but if I got all the way down the track without having to completely abort the run - it was a good run. This was with 8" slicks. A year of chassis tuning got it working pretty good to the tune of 10.60's at 130.
I would take it around the block on the weekend just to F* around. Twice, I looped it trying to go around corners. It sure was fun though.
Project Street Sweeper will have 400+.

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Marty Staggs
www.staggsracing.com

Sidewalk · Post by **Sidewalk** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:53 pm

I was just about to say that a TO3 isn't going to allow that engine to breathe.

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'88 Bronco II - Sonja
'59 Bug - Stella
'00 Buell X1 - Liz
"Yes, I am a smart ass."
"I'm a DUMBASS too"

But are you gutless?

sinistervw · Post by **sinistervw** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 8:05 pm

hey Marty...Whats this ice stuff you speak of...i only have ice in my freezer!