Automatic drag transaxle

merfin78 · Post by **merfin78** » Fri Jun 29, 2001 8:15 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tom Simon:
Let's see, if I could get a backwards ground cam, get the starter motor to go the wrong way, and change the "oiling scoops" on the crank main journals... or maybe not

I wonder if you can just flip the Corvair ring gear to the other side, like you do with an early type II box using reduction gears. A guy in town (WEEKS WEWm I've neverBEEN met) had about 10 Corvairs on his property. Maybe this would be a good time to introduce myself, and talk to him about this.

I plan on calling Transaxle engineering tomorrow about their "race-auto" transaxle. It looks like an expensive piece, but so is research and development.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

PEOPLE WAIT AFEW WEEKS AND MAYBE I CAN ANS THIS AUTO QUESTION I HAV LOST MOST USE OF LEFT LEG AND LOVE TO RACE VW DRAG CARS SO I AM WORKING ON SEVERAL PROJECTS NOW

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Fri Jun 29, 2001 1:56 pm

Hi Andrew,

The proposal would be a standard VW configuraton, engine out back, then the third member, then the gearbox in front of that, all bolted together (of course). I could envision a casting or weldment that accepts some third member, mated to a compact portion (sans the output shaft housing) of a traditional GM automatic. The tough part is getting the output shaft to exit out the wrong end of the transmission so you can drive the pinion gear!

Did ZF ever make an automatic gearbox for the Pantera? If they did, they would probably be more rare than hen's teeth.

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Fri Jun 29, 2001 4:49 pm

tom, won't work to flip ring gear, not enough room in the case. not a clue on the zf, never heard about a auto pantera. still brain stormin' what about any front drives with maybe a fabbed diff case??

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power is an addiction

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Fri Jun 29, 2001 7:11 pm

So I talked with Jeff Fields of Transaxle Engineering about trannys in general, and then the RaceAuto transaxle they build and sell. Its based on a 3 speed Audi unit, but uses a Dana ring and pinion in a specially made differential housing. Also part of the housing are a set of sprint car style quick-change gears. (a pair of spur gears used to fine tune for a given dirt track, in this instance perhaps to get things rotating in the proper direction?) but they are definately needed to get the gearing a particular car is after, as the only planitary sets available for the unit are 1.48 second and 2.48 first (third is 1:1) Ring and pinions cost between $150 and $350, not bad.
It seems these are being used in many Baja 1000 type applications, being driven by Porsche, Nissan GTP, V6 and V8 applications, and of course Turbo VW's of all sorts. No drag cars yet, though.
Gotta be a down side, right? It weighs 220lbs. And... ahem... the cost. Are you sitting down? How about $12,500 each. as in, for one. And about $2K for a 1000 mile race service/rebuild.
Its easy to have $25K wrapped up in a serious VW racecar, but I'm not sure I have that much to commit to a gearbox, even if it is "the bomb".

Tom Simon · Post by **Tom Simon** » Sat Jun 30, 2001 2:04 pm

Brian,
A friends dad (Dick Beith), did something like that with his front-wheel drive Boneville steamliner. He had a big block Chevy sitting backward, a long engine output shaft that extended forward, past the third member, and into the the front of a (also backward facing) TH350 of 400. At the tailshaft, he attacheda machined a box that contained a quick change gear set, with the output shaft coming out of this box, back toward the third member, along the top of the transmission (as I recall) then into the forwrd facing third member in a very narrow Winters 9"Ford type housing. I'm getting fuzzy on the details, its been 7-8 years, but I should look him up and see if he has any remains of the old car (destroyed in a nasty crash during testing) Maybe I could gleen some ideas from that set-up.
I haven't given up on the Corvair deal. I crawled under one this morning, it sure is a compact unit. Someone mentioned the Corvair engine turns backward to a VW. IF we could swap the ring and pinion (maybe this would require a fabricated diff housing) AND reconfigure the pump so it pumps oil while going backward, does anyone know why the clutch band and drum wouldn't work spinning backward? Thrust going the wrong direction on the planetary set a problem? Any thing else I might be missing? Instead, I wonder if I could put a quick change gear set (thus changing the rotation direction) between the engine and transaxle?

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Sat Jun 30, 2001 11:05 pm

wow!! jeff is real proud of his transaxle isn't he. the auto's gear ratios are the same as most rear drive autos. i still think it could work using a thm-350 or a c-4, chain or gears off the tailshaft, with a shaft returning under valve body to a diff in a fabbed case. all i need is a bridgeport, a lathe, a big tig, and a bunch of time. somehow i'll make this work, would really like the consistancey of an auto.

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power is an addiction

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Sun Jul 01, 2001 11:02 pm

i was talking with my father about or little delema today( vw dealership tech in the early 70's). he seems to think the best route is the bus auto. least fabrication problems, spins the right direction, and claims they are quite strong. got a vw guru in the area that i'm going to try and pick his brain on this tomorrow. talked to the local TCI (race converters) dealer today at the strip. he claims if i have a core and all the info on the car they will custom build a converter for the vw auto. i'm sure with studying hydraulics of the vw auto i can develop a trans-brake. the only problem i have with this is i have a swing axle car and would like to leave it this way. anybody out there done any irs to swing conversions on late bus trannies?

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power is an addiction

Muffler Mike · Post by **Muffler Mike** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 12:32 pm

I have seen folts swing set up on a vanagan box already, so he would be the one to call on that. and it was done on a narrowed rear so that tells me any lenth you want.

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Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com

briansbug · Post by **briansbug** » Mon Jul 02, 2001 9:29 pm

thanks for the info mike, any chance that you have a way to contact folts? picked up a factory type 2 service manual today for $10(bargain?)covers the 010 trans pretty good also found out that the actual trans section was used in most audi and vw front drives and will interchange with the vanagon.just for info gearing of the 010 trans is: 2.55 1st gear, 1.45 2nd , 1.00 3rd, with a 4.10 final drive

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power is an addiction

GDRBO · Post by **GDRBO** » Tue Jul 03, 2001 8:39 am

I am building a glass body buggy with a bus auto. Fitting the auto into a bug pan requires MAJOR surgery!! The auto is 14' wide at the pan, while a bug trans is about 8". I had to nearly compleatly remove the frame horns. I kept enough to save the IRS arm pivots and the e-brake guide tubes. You will have to hang the motor and trans like a late type 3 or 2.

Steve Arndt · Post by **Steve Arndt** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 9:21 am

The dif is offset in the automatic so the normal Folts conversion kit will not work. It would need one long and one short axle. IRS looks to be the only option IMO.

14 inches? I was hoping to not have to cut up that much! I'm thinking a pro ringed 091 bus trans is the best

GDRBO · Post by **GDRBO** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 4:54 pm

I seriously doubt VW ever had plans to fit the full automatic in a bug.

K-Ghia · Post by **K-Ghia** » Thu Jul 05, 2001 5:23 pm

The type 3 automatic was a copy of the GM powerglide. The Green Pickle (east coast) ran this tranny and the last I heard broke the sprag and was looking for another one. If you go that route, get the internals cryo-treated. Someone down south on the east coast may be able to get you their website.
Ken Swain

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Muffler Mike · Post by **Muffler Mike** » Fri Jul 06, 2001 8:01 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by briansbug:
thanks for the info mike, any chance that you have a way to contact folts? picked up a factory type 2 service manual today for $10(bargain?)covers the 010 trans pretty good also found out that the actual trans section was used in most audi and vw front drives and will interchange with the vanagon.just for info gearing of the 010 trans is: 2.55 1st gear, 1.45 2nd , 1.00 3rd, with a 4.10 final drive

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will see if i can dig up his number somewhere. Although what i seen was in a race car, and if what Steve pointed out is ture with the offset diff, it may be dificult. What i looked at was set up by JCL racecars and the box was raised up as well. (at least the axle position would have been the same as having a type 1 box raised some 3-4 inches.) So i could only guess, this allows the box to be moved to one side or the other as needed to compensate. I will see this car again next month when we go to denver, i will try to get a good look at it this time. it might even go on the rack over at ems before denver where i can get a good look and report back.

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Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com

Michael Ghia · Post by **Michael Ghia** » Sat Jul 07, 2001 4:40 pm

Not sure if this should be here or on the Conversion Perversions page but what the hell!
Does anyone have any figures as to what kind of hp a T2/T4 auto box will handle?
I'm planning on using one in my westy van with a Rover V8 and then (when funds allow) a Porsche 928 V8. The Rover V8 I'm using only puts out about 150bhp but the 928 pushes out 300bhp. I rekon that it should cope with the Rover motor but not too sure about the 928 engine.
Any ideas and if not, can I make it stronger by using Audi bits from different Autos...
Thanks
Mike Ghia

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Modification is a form of Art.