Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
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nb
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
The wbx cranks are a very good option if you don't need a huge increase in stroke. Original factory VW parts are properly engineered and well made (not something you can say for all aftermarket "performance" products...). Think of the wbx crank as a factory update/redesign of the T1 original. VW engineers know what they are doing, this is a good part, and cheap too!
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
A better option to the wasser crank is the wasser case. Yup. YOu could use the stock wasser 76 crank then, or any Type 1 cank with Type 4 mains. Machine off the water jacket and bore the cylinder holes for anything from a Type 1 94mm to a Type 4 105mm. The head stud pattern is the same as the aftermarket race case 101.6. Use aftermarket heads (like Superflow, Autocraft or SHO) and fly. Yeah, so you won't have full cooling. I thoguht you wanted to go fast? Add a Porsche-style fan shroud if you want to go to the store.
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
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*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
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Paul Illick
- Posts: 824
- Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2000 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
What up, Searoy? Things a little slow over in RAMVA?
VWMorton, post above, is talking about just that subject, photos and all. Check it out. Not aftermarket race case heads, but still pretty tight.
[This message has been edited by Paul Illick (edited 08-24-2001).]
VWMorton, post above, is talking about just that subject, photos and all. Check it out. Not aftermarket race case heads, but still pretty tight.
[This message has been edited by Paul Illick (edited 08-24-2001).]
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Steve Arndt
- Posts: 7420
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
Please explain what I need to do to use an all T4 main crank in the wasser case. What happens with the thrust surface in the wasser case.
Please explain how to use Superflow heads with T1 stud spacing on the wasser. It can't happen I thought.
The stud pattern is not the same as "aftermarket race cases". It will not fit the Bugpack ARPM Angleflow heads, which only fit the ARPM case (without major work).
They will fit w/ Autocraft 910 heads.
Steve
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Searoy:
<B>A better option to the wasser crank is the wasser case. Yup. YOu could use the stock wasser 76 crank then, or any Type 1 cank with Type 4 mains. Machine off the water jacket and bore the cylinder holes for anything from a Type 1 94mm to a Type 4 105mm. The head stud pattern is the same as the aftermarket race case 101.6. Use aftermarket heads (like Superflow, Autocraft or SHO) and fly. Yeah, so you won't have full cooling. I thoguht you wanted to go fast? Add a Porsche-style fan shroud if you want to go to the store.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Please explain how to use Superflow heads with T1 stud spacing on the wasser. It can't happen I thought.
The stud pattern is not the same as "aftermarket race cases". It will not fit the Bugpack ARPM Angleflow heads, which only fit the ARPM case (without major work).
They will fit w/ Autocraft 910 heads.
Steve
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Searoy:
<B>A better option to the wasser crank is the wasser case. Yup. YOu could use the stock wasser 76 crank then, or any Type 1 cank with Type 4 mains. Machine off the water jacket and bore the cylinder holes for anything from a Type 1 94mm to a Type 4 105mm. The head stud pattern is the same as the aftermarket race case 101.6. Use aftermarket heads (like Superflow, Autocraft or SHO) and fly. Yeah, so you won't have full cooling. I thoguht you wanted to go fast? Add a Porsche-style fan shroud if you want to go to the store.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
> Please explain what I need to do to use an
> all T4 main crank in the wasser case. What
> happens with the thrust surface in the
> wasser case.
OK. Busted. I was saying all this from word of mouth, second hand, hearsay. I haven't done it yet. It was suggested to me at KadortoDave's birthday party by Fred Simpsons. I just figured he knew what he was talking about...
But since the wasser case is all aluminum, not a magnesium allow, thrust surfaces should be OK. Ya think?
> They will fit w/ Autocraft 910 heads.
Here is everything I know:
- The wasser case and crank use T4 main bearings with a Type 1 rod configuration. Therefore the wasser crank can be used in a T1 case if the case is machined for T4 mains, and vice versa a T1 crank can be used in a wasser case if the crank is a T4 main crank (T4 1, 2 and 3 bearing, T1 4th).
- Use your favorite T1 rods with T1 journals, or whatever you prefer (Chevy?).
- The cam and bearings are T1 configuration and size, so use your favorite T1 cam.
- The head stud pattern is "101" size, whatever that means. In the conversation I had with Fred he said that opening them up to 101.6" and using Autocraft heads would be a no brainer, and SHOs or Superflows would work equally well. Now, for Fred extra machining might not be a big enough deal to mention. Maybe I missed that part during my 4th drink (7n7).
- the lifters are T4 size, so use T4 lifters, sleeved superlite, solid, hydraulic, whatever. But with T1 heads of any type the pushrod holes are T1, so you have to use wasser pushrod tubes, which are T4 at the case and T1 at the head.
- Tin fits. Pulley fits. The oil cooler is in the T4 location, so trimming may be required, but it's already full flow and filtered so whattaya want?
- From another source (to remain nameless) I heard that T4 105s can fit also.
- From the same nameless source I heard that the case can go as big as 90mm crank. Didn't say it would run at LeMans, but said you could do it.
Not to spill the beans on my own plans, Fred said for the drag racing I want to do, 98.4mm pistons (Ford Escort/Pinto) with a short crank (69-74) and 30 lb boost is the way to go. For this I would use the wasser case and my choice of aftermarket heads, machine the case for 101.6 but sleeve it to 98.4. Then I would almost never have to replace the pistons, under "normal racing conditions" (my quote not Fred's).
Lesko said 101.6 x 74 (which is 2400cc) and replace the pistons a little more often. Tempting.
Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get a wasser case with all the machining done, and where to put all these Type 4 engine's I've got lying around...
> all T4 main crank in the wasser case. What
> happens with the thrust surface in the
> wasser case.
OK. Busted. I was saying all this from word of mouth, second hand, hearsay. I haven't done it yet. It was suggested to me at KadortoDave's birthday party by Fred Simpsons. I just figured he knew what he was talking about...
But since the wasser case is all aluminum, not a magnesium allow, thrust surfaces should be OK. Ya think?
> They will fit w/ Autocraft 910 heads.
Here is everything I know:
- The wasser case and crank use T4 main bearings with a Type 1 rod configuration. Therefore the wasser crank can be used in a T1 case if the case is machined for T4 mains, and vice versa a T1 crank can be used in a wasser case if the crank is a T4 main crank (T4 1, 2 and 3 bearing, T1 4th).
- Use your favorite T1 rods with T1 journals, or whatever you prefer (Chevy?).
- The cam and bearings are T1 configuration and size, so use your favorite T1 cam.
- The head stud pattern is "101" size, whatever that means. In the conversation I had with Fred he said that opening them up to 101.6" and using Autocraft heads would be a no brainer, and SHOs or Superflows would work equally well. Now, for Fred extra machining might not be a big enough deal to mention. Maybe I missed that part during my 4th drink (7n7).
- the lifters are T4 size, so use T4 lifters, sleeved superlite, solid, hydraulic, whatever. But with T1 heads of any type the pushrod holes are T1, so you have to use wasser pushrod tubes, which are T4 at the case and T1 at the head.
- Tin fits. Pulley fits. The oil cooler is in the T4 location, so trimming may be required, but it's already full flow and filtered so whattaya want?
- From another source (to remain nameless) I heard that T4 105s can fit also.
- From the same nameless source I heard that the case can go as big as 90mm crank. Didn't say it would run at LeMans, but said you could do it.
Not to spill the beans on my own plans, Fred said for the drag racing I want to do, 98.4mm pistons (Ford Escort/Pinto) with a short crank (69-74) and 30 lb boost is the way to go. For this I would use the wasser case and my choice of aftermarket heads, machine the case for 101.6 but sleeve it to 98.4. Then I would almost never have to replace the pistons, under "normal racing conditions" (my quote not Fred's).
Lesko said 101.6 x 74 (which is 2400cc) and replace the pistons a little more often. Tempting.
Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get a wasser case with all the machining done, and where to put all these Type 4 engine's I've got lying around...
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Muffler Mike
- Posts: 3186
- Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
I love fantasy money spending.
Any ways, if I read correctly, a type 1 configuration crank will fit IF it had type 4 mains?
In other words, have Scat or some one make a type 1 crank but with t4 mains. (maybe even a flanged crank)
Then the head stud pattern, Could it actually be a type 4 spacing? Or is it a one off thing.
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Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com
Any ways, if I read correctly, a type 1 configuration crank will fit IF it had type 4 mains?
In other words, have Scat or some one make a type 1 crank but with t4 mains. (maybe even a flanged crank)
Then the head stud pattern, Could it actually be a type 4 spacing? Or is it a one off thing.
------------------
Muffler Mike
www.MufflerMike.com
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Searoy
- Posts: 2869
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Muffler Mike:
<B>I love fantasy money spending.
Any ways, if I read correctly, a type 1 configuration crank will fit IF it had type 4 mains?
In other words, have Scat or some one make a type 1 crank but with t4 mains. (maybe even a flanged crank)
Then the head stud pattern, Could it actually be a type 4 spacing? Or is it a one off thing.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fred Simpson last I spoke with him said the WBX stud spacing was the standard adopted by the 101.6 crowd, so autocraft heads, or similar heads set up for 101.6 studs, bolt on.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
<B>I love fantasy money spending.
Any ways, if I read correctly, a type 1 configuration crank will fit IF it had type 4 mains?
In other words, have Scat or some one make a type 1 crank but with t4 mains. (maybe even a flanged crank)
Then the head stud pattern, Could it actually be a type 4 spacing? Or is it a one off thing.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Fred Simpson last I spoke with him said the WBX stud spacing was the standard adopted by the 101.6 crowd, so autocraft heads, or similar heads set up for 101.6 studs, bolt on.
------------------
*** Teach a Man to Fish ***
Searoy
"I tend to lean toward a tighter gap and a
looser skirt....a little slap never hurt." -- Joe of the West
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Steve Arndt
- Posts: 7420
- Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2001 12:01 am
Wasserboxer cranks in type ! ?
Tom Hansen says his regular 84mm Berg crank works in a wasser case (using the adapter bearings that Berg sells on the two journals that need them).
The spacing is the same as the T4 for Bore Spacing, but not Cylinder spacing. The T4 is a longer engine and has a larger bore spacing. The wasser just has the bigger bore spacing but is a short engine (it did not need ROOM for cylinder cooling fins and big cylinders, unlike the longer T4).
You can use Autocraft heads (Lutz) or SHO heads from Simpson with that pattern.
For drag use, I think having custom sleaves made from LA Sleave or a similar place would be the ticket, in a common size such as 327 Chevy 4".
Steve
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Muffler Mike:
<B>I love fantasy money spending.
Any ways, if I read correctly, a type 1 configuration crank will fit IF it had type 4 mains?
In other words, have Scat or some one make a type 1 crank but with t4 mains. (maybe even a flanged crank)
Then the head stud pattern, Could it actually be a type 4 spacing? Or is it a one off thing.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The spacing is the same as the T4 for Bore Spacing, but not Cylinder spacing. The T4 is a longer engine and has a larger bore spacing. The wasser just has the bigger bore spacing but is a short engine (it did not need ROOM for cylinder cooling fins and big cylinders, unlike the longer T4).
You can use Autocraft heads (Lutz) or SHO heads from Simpson with that pattern.
For drag use, I think having custom sleaves made from LA Sleave or a similar place would be the ticket, in a common size such as 327 Chevy 4".
Steve
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Muffler Mike:
<B>I love fantasy money spending.
Any ways, if I read correctly, a type 1 configuration crank will fit IF it had type 4 mains?
In other words, have Scat or some one make a type 1 crank but with t4 mains. (maybe even a flanged crank)
Then the head stud pattern, Could it actually be a type 4 spacing? Or is it a one off thing.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>