T1 trans R&R

[Ol'fogasaurus]

https://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopi ... s#p1235715

Not sure but see if this will help.

Lee

[H2OSB]

Clatter, now I must preface I don't know this FIRST hand, but I've heard the CVs aren't the weak link unless they're running at extreme angles, however, it certainly wouldn't hurt to run 100mm CVs.

As I'm sure you're aware it's an easy enough upgrade. The 944 stub axles are a direct replacement for IRS stub axles, and that I DO know first hand. Personally, I plan to run the stock size unless they become a problem then I'll switch to 100mm.

For many years I used to have an '86 VW GTI that I rebuilt or replaced CV boots on a couple times over the years. The boot on one side or the other would tear and fling out the grease which could be replaced if caught soon enough. Sometimes I caught it, sometimes I didn't. ANYway, those CV joints were 100mm, and I've often wondered if they could be used on the inside and/or outside of a Beetle(well, IRS car) with 944 stubs and type 181/tracker output flanges.

Why would I consider this? As we all know, VW tends to over engineer everything. My GTI came stock with somewhere in the 100 teens HP, and I had upgraded to and engine with about 130hp. Never once did I consider the strength of the CVs, nor did I have a failure that wasn't caused by a torn boot and subsequent lack of grease. Makes me curious if they would hold up to my ultimate 2056cc T4. I haven't thought about this in a while, but will now.

H2OSB

[Bruce2]

I tried to find 25.5mm bars from a 944 turbo but they're hard to find .......buy 26mm bars." So I did.

A quick calculation: your 26 mm bars are 8% stiffer than 25.5s.

26mm bars are 95% stiffer than stock 22mm bars, or almost double the spring rate. That's a pretty big jump.

23.5mm bars are 30% stiffer than stock 22 mm bars.

What does a Type 3 Squareback use?

[Bruce2]

Makes me curious if they would hold up to my ultimate 2056cc T4. I haven't thought about this in a while, but will now.

Unless you're going drag racing on slicks, the stock 91mm joints should be fine. As long as you prevent wheel hop.
I only broke the stock Beetle CV when my front wheels were half a foot off the ground. Slicks, 2100 lbs.
The Bus CVs on a street car are virtually indestructible. I know of a drag racer who said he ran deep into the 9s on Bus Lobro CVs.

[H2OSB]

I tried to find 25.5mm bars from a 944 turbo but they're hard to find .......buy 26mm bars." So I did.

A quick calculation: your 26 mm bars are 8% stiffer than 25.5s.

26mm bars are 95% stiffer than stock 22mm bars, or almost double the spring rate. That's a pretty big jump.

23.5mm bars are 30% stiffer than stock 22 mm bars.

What does a Type 3 Squareback use?

The Squareback uses 23.5mm bars. 25.5mm bars are near impossible to find. They're not a typical, optional size available via the aftermarket.

I know 26s are quite a bit stiffer, but I absolutely didn't think 23.5s did the job during autocross. Another option I've thought about is using adjustable GAZ shocks so I can change the damping rate at the venue. First I need to get the car on the road.

I will say my other recently sold 1303 had 23.5s, KYB shocks and big Topline sway bars(19mm on the back) and handled like a dream EXCEPT on hard launches and hard left-right or right-left transitions. If I were not eventually going to a heavier engine, I would just try different shocks. This car(sorry if I've stated this a million times) with be 26mm torsion bars, 15mm sway bar and non adjustable Koni shocks.

For the record, it should be noted stock front springs on a Super are 78lbs/inch and I've been only using 125lbs/in springs for years. I had a 7/8ths inch sway bar on the front of my sold 1303 and an off brand Japanese insert called Sen-Sen(because it was the only insert I could get to properly fit my coilovers).

H2OSB

[H2OSB]

Makes me curious if they would hold up to my ultimate 2056cc T4. I haven't thought about this in a while, but will now.

Unless you're going drag racing on slicks, the stock 91mm joints should be fine. As long as you prevent wheel hop.
I only broke the stock Beetle CV when my front wheels were half a foot off the ground. Slicks, 2100 lbs.
The Bus CVs on a street car are virtually indestructible. I know of a drag racer who said he ran deep into the 9s on Bus Lobro CVs.

Yeah, I planned to use stock CVs. I was only looking at watercooled CVs as another avenue, if needed. Although, after my above post, I was pricing complete axle assemblies on Rock Auto and found Porsche 944 and VW GTI to both be quite reasonable. The only expensive ones were for an IRS car.

I definitely expect to control wheel hop with my Kafer cup bar and mid mount

[Bruce.m]

I’ve bought some stock sized CV joints but with a later water cooled part number, as they are supplied with bolts & gaskets & a better price.

Yet to fit them so it might turn out to be an expensive mistake but the dimensions all look correct.

[H2OSB]

I’ve bought some stock sized CV joints but with a later water cooled part number, as they are supplied with bolts & gaskets & a better price.

Yet to fit them so it might turn out to be an expensive mistake but the dimensions all look correct.

Any chance I could get the source and/or p/n for those? I have 8 CVs floating about...does anyone sell rebuild kits for them? I used to rebuild my watercooled CVs when a boot would tear.

The one huge difference I've noticed with IRS vs the CVs on my old GTI is the watercooled axles were "C" clipped to the CV, where the IRS ones float. Correct? I completely disassembled one of the axles from some trans I had and I noted that, but it otherwise reminded me of a short side axle assembly from my GTI.

P.S. Looks like Beck/Arnley 103-2145 is a reasonably priced rebuild kit.

H2OSB

[Bruce.m]

At your own risk...
MEYLE 1004980182

Comes with the bolts, crescent washers, gasket etc.

MEYLE also sell a part for Beetle. Check their online catalogue.

Another option is the Seat Arosa CV. It is the same size but has extra axial tolerance, which is why the early 911 boys use it (the OG 911 part is NLA and although a beetle driveshaft set will fit, the length is a few mm out of spec which causes the CVs to fail early)

[H2OSB]

At your own risk...
MEYLE 1004980182

Comes with the bolts, crescent washers, gasket etc.

MEYLE also sell a part for Beetle. Check their online catalogue.

Another option is the Seat Arosa CV. It is the same size but has extra axial tolerance, which is why the early 911 boys use it (the OG 911 part is NLA and although a beetle driveshaft set will fit, the length is a few mm out of spec which causes the CVs to fail early)

I love finding obscure parts that fit in one fashion or another...like the Porsche 924 spindles I'm using.

I'll give you the opportunity to be the Guinea pig on the first part. I'm intrigued by the Seat Arosa part, but you're saying they don't hold up?

Are Bus CVs 100mm like 944? Are there any issues with axle length using Bus CVs?

H2OSB

[Ol'fogasaurus]

If you are going to use bus CVs on a type I trans you have to upgrade the mounting cups/flanges on the trans to the larger cups for the larger dia. CVs; e.g.... (assuming the URL I posted is the one that describes that. Also you will need to change to using a pair of bus stub axles. I seem to remember that the axle length will be different also but the page(s) before my post and maybe after should give some of that info.

Lee

[H2OSB]

Honestly, I don't really want to, and would need to acquire things I don't already have. Like the watercooled CV inquiry, I just like know what might work.

944 stubs are directly exchangeable and are items I have, however, I worry about the thickness of the CVs(if that's the correct terminology) effecting the axle shafts themselves due to having incompatible lengths. Unless I find myself destroying stock CVs, I will stick to stock. I like knowing what other people have worked out, successfully or not. I also don't imagine everyone who builds a powerful engine even considers the CVs and I don't often hear of failures.

All I'm hoping for with my penultimate 2056cc T4 is around 125-130hp and perhaps 150lbs ft of torque. Since I've never been one to simply drop the clutch on ANY car, much less a Beetle, I don't think CVs will ever be an issue for me. However, if I were to ever to feel I need to upgrade, I'd likely just go to T181 output flanges and 944 stubs and use 100mm, 944 CVs for a done deal.

To bring this thread back around full circle, I am hoping my zig zag case will be all I need, as is. I'm not planning any hard core racing or off roading, i.e. anything that is potentially harsh. Anyone who has autocrossed before knows how mild it is to the car, at least at my level. I do admit to having a bucket list desire to someday drive my prepped Beetle on the Leguna Seca raceway, but I'll jump off that bridge when I get to it.

So, to my original question(and, for the record, all the departures from my original question(s) are things I really wanted to know, going forward, with my trans set up), leave the seals alone, unless they are leaking? I've decided to not swap the nose cone to avoid complications, though I may dress away any potential wear caused by the ms/ms bearing. Also, I will run stock CVs.

Now, not I'm meaning to poke a wasps nest, but what about using synthetic gear oil? And what viscosity is recommended for the central valley of California (temps range from a lowest of the teens(very rare) to a highest of the 100s and teens(almost every summer))? Is there a really good conventional gear oil? Hybrid?

I have a good friend who autocrosses a Super and has has always used synthetic in his gearbox. I have a lot of respect for the two guys who have responded most often in this thread, and unless you guys have a rock solid recommendation for gear oil, I likely fall back on the recommendation of my autocrosser buddy.

Thanks
H2OSB

[H2OSB]

I also meant to ask...is a padded trans strap needed and/or recommended?

H2OSB

[Ian Godfrey]

I have tried the padded trans strap, it fitted poorly and did nothing to stop the frame horns bouncing around. I now use either hard VW mounts from Wolfsberg West or the CB grey mounts. I also have found the red urethane mounts are inclined to tear.

Re oil, I have just been around this for my new box. I read the whole Samba gearbox oil thread and checked in with a few people I respect. In summary most say use 80W - 90 mineral oil (with high pressure rating for our hypoid diffs) for breaking in:
In no particular order.....
LAT 80 – 90 mineral, says Rancho
Valvoline 80W-90, VV831 says Bruce and Gary Berg
Castrol gear LS(X) 90 hypoid says Pablo or B373LSD
Torco RGO 80/90 says Jim martin
Lucas 80W -90 weight oil specific GL -4 and GL-5 popular
Penrite 80W – 90 for Hypoid and limited slip, popular in Australia (where I am)

After break in, some folks are happy to go to synthetic for 'better' shifting, and some say don't, stay with mineral.
I am planning to try some synthetic, maybe:
Amsoil 80w 90 syn, says John Connelly
Swepco 201 or 210, say lots of Porsche owners
There is also Redline MTL or MT 90, Motul gear 300 and Royal Purple 75W - 90 that look possible

I'm sure others will chime in

[H2OSB]

Thanks! That's a good response. Nothing breaking in on my gearbox. It has unknown mileage. I once had Bruce tell me year based on the case number so I know it's a '79 gearbox, but I have no idea what it was doing in the '73 car I bought it in. At least it should have the strongest internals VW put in a T1 box(SHOULD).

My buddy I mentioned above who uses synthetic says it shifts buttery smooth, and coupled with my weighted knob, Bug-Tech shifter, I think that's the way I'll go.

Thanks
H2OSB