Spark issues

[56rag1914cc]

As marc said if you can try a ignition switch bypass via a jumper wire.

If that is not the problem then check the high tension lead as they have been known to be bad out of the box.

Coils are also hard to check out: where I worked a long time ago we had a coil tester but even then we checked some out good that turned out to be not good. If you have good power (12 volts at least) to the coil but nothing at the spark plug the coil and high tension lead I would check out. Also the coils are sometimes different. Some require a ballast resistor and some don't. If you have one that doesn't but you have a ballast resistor you could have troubles there. Marc, isn't this true?

I think you said that the engine transaxle ground was good didn't you.

Frustrating for you fun for us to "who done it".

How would you do an ignition switch bypass? What is the high tension lead? (Sorry!)

Yea, tranny gnd strap there and nice and clean. I have a blue bosch coil.

I replaced the wiring loom beforehand and did everything EXACTlY by the directions. Awesome kit and directions from aircooled.net. But it seems I might have missed something if i cant start my motor!

[56rag1914cc]

I am in fact getting power at the coil. Test light stayed on during cranking.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

The high tension lead is the wire from the coil to the distributor cap; an old term maybe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_tension_leads).

Ah-ha the blue coil which is what I was talking about. Some need the ballast while others don't. Do the instructions tell you if you need the voltage drop or not?

Bypassing the ignition is another old way of saying hot wire the car which is illeagal . I have never done this before so if I remember correctly: a lead from the positive post on the battery to the positive on the coil and a starter button (if you have one or shielded screwdriver/or wire to arc the starter solenoid). If I remembered wrong then you could do in the coil which is why you need to know if you need a dropping resistor. I'm waiting for a response from Marc, 'pile or one of the gurus.

Lee

[Piledriver]

Guru? Just an old crotchety dude who fixes stuff.

If you have 12v at the + side of the coil, and a pulsing 12v (on/off when cranking) on the - side, a good coil will fire, even if you are just connecting/disconnecting the - coil terminal with a jumper to ground.

The points should be doing this for you.

Potential gotchas:
Points may have sat in a box for years and have an oxide layer grown on the contact faces.
The spark plug wires may be junk.
You forgot to install the rotor or connect the points inside, or the timing is off/gap wrong.
The plugs may be fouled/effectively shorted for HV and won't spark.

The coils available these days, even "Bosch Blue Coils" are all over the place quality wise.
It should read ~3 ohms of resistance, much less and it requires an external ballast resistor.
External ballast resistors are not a bad thing.

If you have a voltmeter and learn how to use it (both an excellent investment) this is one of the easier things to troubleshoot. Even a probe type test light is handy.

You can buy a cheap spark gap tester a lot of places, usually used for lawnmower testing, just put it on the end of the plug or coil wire going back into the distributor cap and clip the other end to ground, provides a decent visual test, spark should be a big, fat blue-white or white arc and make a decent pop. Little wimpy yellow spark no bueno.

One common issue is low voltage to the coil, the factory design has unfused power running the length of the car from the ignition switch, this wire is best used to operate a relay connected to direct battery or off the alternator 12v with an easy to get at/visible inline fuse (clear/waterproof, preferably, with an LED indicator...this is NOT your immediate issue most likely, but consider it)

[56rag1914cc]

Guru? Just an old crotchety dude who fixes stuff.

If you have 12v at the + side of the coil, and a pulsing 12v (on/off when cranking) on the - side, a good coil will fire, even if you are just connecting/disconnecting the - coil terminal with a jumper to ground.

The points should be doing this for you.

Potential gotchas:
Points may have sat in a box for years and have an oxide layer grown on the contact faces.
The spark plug wires may be junk.
You forgot to install the rotor or connect the points inside, or the timing is off/gap wrong.
The plugs may be fouled/effectively shorted for HV and won't spark.

The coils available these days, even "Bosch Blue Coils" are all over the place quality wise.
It should read ~3 ohms of resistance, much less and it requires an external ballast resistor.
External ballast resistors are not a bad thing.

If you have a voltmeter and learn how to use it (both an excellent investment) this is one of the easier things to troubleshoot. Even a probe type test light is handy.

You can buy a cheap spark gap tester a lot of places, usually used for lawnmower testing, just put it on the end of the plug or coil wire going back into the distributor cap and clip the other end to ground, provides a decent visual test, spark should be a big, fat blue-white or white arc and make a decent pop. Little wimpy yellow spark no bueno.

One common issue is low voltage to the coil, the factory design has unfused power running the length of the car from the ignition switch, this wire is best used to operate a relay connected to direct battery or off the alternator 12v with an easy to get at/visible inline fuse (clear/waterproof, preferably, with an LED indicator...this is NOT your immediate issue most likely, but consider it)

Thanks piledriver. I have a brand new pertronix dizzy with pertronix ignition from installed. just arrived the other day and installed. I replaced plug wires/plugs/coil as well. Thats why I am at such a loss. Thought i was narrowing it down.

The voltage issue you mentioned sounds like is worth a shot. Do you know of a specific relay I should consider? I just ordered my spark tester.

[Marc]

All you need for a relay is a standard load-reduction relay (lots of `em in the fusepanels of VWs/Audis, Volvos, etc. at the boneyard). Some are made with a mounting tab which makes it easier to use in an application like this. They come in single- and dual-throw, and some single-throws have dual output terminals (#87) - that lets you run separate feedwires to the coil and the carburetor if desired. 10 amp capacity is actually enough for the job, but it does no harm to go "bigger" (they come in a range of amp ratings, 10 through 40A are the most common). The DIN standard terminal designations for the functionality that you require are 30, 85, 86, and 87 - virtually any relay you find with those numbers on it will do the job.


But, as Piledriver already said this is not likely to be the immediate issue. If it were, running a jumper wire from the battery straight to the coil ("hotwiring") would result in getting spark.

[Piledriver]

Put your test light on the points side (-) of the coil.
!Make CERTAIN you do not have your power to the choke etc running off this side, or it will not run.
It should have only one wire to the pertronix (unless you have a tach)

The test light (with the other end grounded) should flash on and off as you rotate the engine.
If this isn't happening, I guarantee it will not run

If it is doing this, and the coil has power, it should throw a spark every time the light goes off.

If this provides no activity, check the wiring of the pertronix... They die instantly if powered backwards.

[56rag1914cc]

All you need for a relay is a standard load-reduction relay (lots of `em in the fusepanels of VWs/Audis, Volvos, etc. at the boneyard). Some are made with a mounting tab which makes it easier to use in an application like this. They come in single- and dual-throw, and some single-throws have dual output terminals (#87) - that lets you run separate feedwires to the coil and the carburetor if desired. 10 amp capacity is actually enough for the job, but it does no harm to go "bigger" (they come in a range of amp ratings, 10 through 40A are the most common). The DIN standard terminal designations for the functionality that you require are 30, 85, 86, and 87 - virtually any relay you find with those numbers on it will do the job.


But, as Piledriver already said this is not likely to be the immediate issue. If it were, running a jumper wire from the battery straight to the coil ("hotwiring") would result in getting spark.

Thanks, added to my cart on amazon just in case. I will run hot wire straight from battery today and test.

[56rag1914cc]

Put your test light on the points side (-) of the coil.
!Make CERTAIN you do not have your power to the choke etc running off this side, or it will not run.
It should have only one wire to the pertronix (unless you have a tach)

The test light (with the other end grounded) should flash on and off as you rotate the engine.
If this isn't happening, I guarantee it will not run

If it is doing this, and the coil has power, it should throw a spark every time the light goes off.

If this provides no activity, check the wiring of the pertronix... They die instantly if powered backwards.

Got it! I only tested postive side yesterday. Will test neg side. There is only one gnd wire on that side. Thanks again for the tips!

[56rag1914cc]

Again, thanks for the assist on this. The weather is good and I want to drive her!!

[56rag1914cc]

Put your test light on the points side (-) of the coil.
!Make CERTAIN you do not have your power to the choke etc running off this side, or it will not run.
It should have only one wire to the pertronix (unless you have a tach)

The test light (with the other end grounded) should flash on and off as you rotate the engine.
If this isn't happening, I guarantee it will not run

If it is doing this, and the coil has power, it should throw a spark every time the light goes off.

If this provides no activity, check the wiring of the pertronix... They die instantly if powered backwards.

Got it! I only tested postive side yesterday. Will test neg side. There is only one gnd wire on that side. Thanks again for the tips!

I tested negative side of coil (brand new blue coil) test light did not go on at all for negative but was perfect with positive side. Should I order a new coil? Thanks. I he this is as easy as a new coil, driving me crazy.

[56rag1914cc]

could i possibly use my spare ignition switch wired straight from the battery and then wire straight from ignition to coil from #30?

[Piledriver]

If it never turned on, and it turns on over on the + side, unplug the wire on the - side and check the coil - with the tester again...

If the pertronix is cooked, it is likely to stay in the "points closed" state, and your test light will not light up.
it should light up the test light on - if the - side is disconnected.

If not, coil could be open, but that's not a typical failure.

I see a set of points in your immediate future.

Signing off, have to go pull a driveshaft off a Ford.

[56rag1914cc]

I just borrowed a buddies coil and the negative side flashes with the test light .....

[56rag1914cc]

Ok guys.....it started! My buddy gave me his coil and i put a new high tension cable between coil and distributor cap.

What confuses me is i had a brand new bosch blue coil same as the one my buddy gave me.

Thanks again for the moral and technical support!