Additional Cylinder studs

fusername · Post by **fusername** » Sun May 17, 2009 8:34 am

does all that welding on the head kill cooling? Curious if this is a drag race only or a maintainable setup.

michael86 · Post by **michael86** » Sun May 17, 2009 10:22 am

Hey Richard I am having those spacers with studs made for my typ 4.
I will post pictures when my machinist is finished.

It is a 86x103mm typ 4 turbo.

Michael

techsol · Post by **techsol** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:31 am

Richard, great pic's!

Fantastic insights and placements ideas!

Has anyone ever tired to tie the heads to the cylinders to a plate on the lower side of the cylinders rather than to the case?

Gotta spend some time with some "what if's" looking at the case. Thought I saw a past post on this somewhere

Thanks much Richard!

Post by **Type 4 Unleashed** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:40 am

fusername wrote:does all that welding on the head kill cooling? Curious if this is a drag race only or a maintainable setup.

I think is does. Especially on the Int runners, since now there are no cooling fins at all, and the Int ports, or the Int Charge is getting heat soaked, it's just sucking
all the heat right out of the Int ports. And to make good power and to reduce detonation the Int charge needs to be kept as cool as possible.

Here ia Pic of my welded 50 x 42 heads that are sitting on the shelf waiting to see how the Tit valved heads work out. And if they do these will go Tit and may even
bump them up to 52 x 43 Tit...

But before they go back on a motor either with the current valves or switched to Tit, the Int ports will get Heat Sinks. There are plenty of options out there, I am leaning
to something like the heat sinks used on computer CPU's.

techsol · Post by **techsol** » Sun May 17, 2009 11:43 am

Richard, How big and who's cylinders are those?

Thanks Dick

Post by **Type 4 Unleashed** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:14 pm

michael86 wrote:Hey Richard I am having those spacers with studs made for my typ 4.
I will post pictures when my machinist is finished.

It is a 86x103mm typ 4 turbo.

Michael

Hi Michael

That would be great, that was the only Pic I found, and some of the spacers not mounted would be much nicer.

A 2866 Turboed motor should be wild. Whose rods will you use and what length ? I have a friend who is I think building the same size motor, he had MOLDEX make him a 86mm Type 4 crank and had Cunningham make him a set of Chevy jrl 6.0" rods. And by far the Cunningham rods provide the most rod to cam lobe clearance that I have seen.

Post by **Type 4 Unleashed** » Sun May 17, 2009 1:22 pm

techsol wrote:Richard, How big and who's cylinders are those?

Thanks Dick

Hi Dick

These were an expermint, to see how big a set of valves would fit in a set of 914 2.0 ltr heads. European Motorworks did the work their link is in my signature, and there was quite a lot of work to do these.

The link provides some more pics and info about the work done starting on page 8.

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic ... highlight=

fusername · Post by **fusername** » Mon May 18, 2009 9:17 am

to be clear, those studs are set in an aluminum sleeve fitted over teh bottom of a turned downcylinder? A really cool idea in my book if I am understanding right.

Post by **Type 4 Unleashed** » Mon May 18, 2009 10:53 pm

fusername wrote:to be clear, those studs are set in an aluminum sleeve fitted over teh bottom of a turned downcylinder? A really cool idea in my book if I am understanding right.

Yes, the studs are set in the Aluminum spacer (Cyl Spacer) but no the bottom of the cyll's are not turned down, they are thin enough as it is.

But here is where the problem is, unless you are going a large stroke & long rod, the six stud setup may be hard to use ? But there still might be a way ?

Post by **Type 4 Unleashed** » Fri May 22, 2009 8:06 pm

Type 4 Unleashed wrote: Here's something I came across and have been considering. Now depending on crank strokes and rod lengths, I kinda like this better, and even have a couple of ideas for improvements. And no case welding required. And won't even mention the extra cooling.

I forgot to point out that these spacers have the 5th & 6th studs centered and will be used with heads with Type 1 Exh ports, if these were made for Type lV heads at least the bottom stud would have to be offset to clear the Type lV Exh ports.

michael86 · Post by **michael86** » Mon May 25, 2009 7:32 am

Type 4 Unleashed wrote:
michael86 wrote:Hey Richard I am having those spacers with studs made for my typ 4.
I will post pictures when my machinist is finished.

It is a 86x103mm typ 4 turbo.

Michael
Hi Michael

That would be great, that was the only Pic I found, and some of the spacers not mounted would be much nicer.

A 2866 Turboed motor should be wild. Whose rods will you use and what length ? I have a friend who is I think building the same size motor, he had MOLDEX make him a 86mm Type 4 crank and had Cunningham make him a set of Chevy jrl 6.0" rods. And by far the Cunningham rods provide the most rod to cam lobe clearance that I have seen.

Hi Richard,

I am using a billet 86 mm scat crank.The plan is to fit the relatively short 5.6"rods.I have some different scat rods and possibly some pauters aswel just to find out what the best one would be.

It turns out to be more difficult to built such a large displacement typ 4 then I thought before.But luckily I have some one around here who has 35+ years experience in the aircooled and wbx world.

Michael

Post by **Type 4 Unleashed** » Mon May 25, 2009 10:32 pm

michael86 wrote:
Type 4 Unleashed wrote:
michael86 wrote:Hey Richard I am having those spacers with studs made for my typ 4.
I will post pictures when my machinist is finished.

It is a 86x103mm typ 4 turbo.

Michael
Hi Michael

That would be great, that was the only Pic I found, and some of the spacers not mounted would be much nicer.

A 2866 Turboed motor should be wild. Whose rods will you use and what length ? I have a friend who is I think building the same size motor, he had MOLDEX make him a 86mm Type 4 crank and had Cunningham make him a set of Chevy jrl 6.0" rods. And by far the Cunningham rods provide the most rod to cam lobe clearance that I have seen.

Hi Richard,

I am using a billet 86 mm scat crank.The plan is to fit the relatively short 5.6"rods.I have some different scat rods and possibly some pauters aswel just to find out what the best one would be.

It turns out to be more difficult to built such a large displacement typ 4 then I thought before.But luckily I have some one around here who has 35+ years experience in the aircooled and wbx world.

Michael

Michael

The 5.6" rods are too short in my opinion, that would give a 1.65 to 1 rod to stroke ratio. Such a short rod will give you an increased rod angle and will promote skirt wear.

The rods have what bolts ? 3/8" or 5/16 ? If they have 3/8", they will give you far more clearance issues than the 5/16 will, between the rod and cam lobes on number 2 & 4 cyl's.

Your cam will have to have at least a 1" base circle with the Scat or Pauter rods. Your gonna have to get clearance from some where, and grinding the sh*t out of the rods & rod bolts for clearance isn't an option, without sacrificing the strength of the rods.