Synthetic Brake Fluid

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I was at my NAPA store today owed and run by a friend of my oldest stepson and I asked him if what I posted ablve was true. the answer is still yes: don't luse DOT 5 where DOT 3 or 4 have been used.

He also said that there is now a DOT 5.1 that is used in Ford truck brakes and it is not silicone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_5.1 http://www.braketech.com/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=79

Edit again... # 3 or 4. From what I have been reading it looks like you can substitute or mix but there may be reasons to use the DOT 4 rather than the DOT 5.1. DOT; 5 is still a no-no with a system that has already had DOT 3 or 4 and it sounds like DOT 5.1 also.

Lee

[Piledriver]

I also used Valvoline Synpower a few years back... killed two brake systems within hours, one brake system was all new hydraulics and rubber hoses, the other was a top-off... both started bleeding out within hours, I will never touch it again.

I'm still wondering it it was mislabeled or something.

OReillys at least ate all the parts.

(I reported this in a similar thread years back, perhaps on TOS)

[buildabiggerboxer]

Don't fix what ain't broke. I've never had fluid problems, it was ATE Blue when I started, and noviced blindly about learning stuff as I went, then dot 3 for a long time until dot 4 came on stream, I only use the workshop stuff, nothing badged as 'racing', but I do flush and bleed fresh every new season.
Racers should never park up after racing with the hand brake, the red hot rear discs, or drums for that matter, will cook the rears in short order, wheel chocks are the way.

[Steve Arndt]

Blue isn't available here soon because of new DOT regulations.

[Bruce2]

quote="Ol'fogasaurus"]. the answer is still yes: don't luse DOT 5 where DOT 3 or 4 have been used.
DOT; 5 is still a no-no with a system that has already had DOT 3 or 4 ....[/quote]
Yes and no.
If you have a system that was previously using DOT 3/4 and you drain it out and fill with DOT 5, you are going to have troubles.
The correct way to convert is to do a complete disassembly and clean all the components in alcohol. Then you can fill with DOT 5. Did this to one of my cars just over 20 years ago.
Another of my cars, I cheated. I drained all the paint stripper then flushed with alcohol followed by compressed air to dry out the alcohol. Repeat 5 times for each corner. Fill with DOT 5. That car was done 13 years ago.

[Piledriver]

Silly question that just occurred to me:
Denatured alcohol is denatured with gasoline, at least traditionally.
Wouldn't that damage the brake system rubber, or is it simply a non issue if blown out well?

[Jim Ed]

I also used Valvoline Synpower a few years back... killed two brake systems within hours, one brake system was all new hydraulics and rubber hoses, the other was a top-off... both started bleeding out within hours, I will never touch it again.

I'm still wondering it it was mislabeled or something.

OReillys at least ate all the parts.

(I reported this in a similar thread years back, perhaps on TOS)

Hello Pile!
What kind of brake fluid do you use and recommend for aircooled VW's like aircooled Beetles? What do you use in your Type 3?
I noticed at motiveproducts.com they sell ATE SL brake fluid and some other brake fluids. Would you recommend this?
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/ ... p_161.html
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/Fluids_c_10.html

[Ol'fogasaurus]

Bruce, what you said is true assuming that you could guarantee the complete removal w/no residuals left of the old brake fluid in the whole system. 'Piles point about the soft lines is also true and is a kicker also as there is potential of residual fluid embedded in them. I am not saying that there would be but why chance it, I would replace the soft parts anyway unless they were very new and I would debate that with myself also. There are also soft parts in and outside of the master and slave cylinders as well.

Based on what I was told years ago: (paraphrase) if you want to chance it with a system flush that is your responsibility but the best way to do it is... not to.

Lee

[Piledriver]

I also used Valvoline Synpower a few years back... killed two brake systems within hours, one brake system was all new hydraulics and rubber hoses, the other was a top-off... both started bleeding out within hours, I will never touch it again.

I'm still wondering it it was mislabeled or something.

OReillys at least ate all the parts.

(I reported this in a similar thread years back, perhaps on TOS)

Hello Pile!
What kind of brake fluid do you use and recommend for aircooled VW's like aircooled Beetles? What do you use in your Type 3?
I noticed at motiveproducts.com they sell ATE SL brake fluid and some other brake fluids. Would you recommend this?
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/ ... p_161.html
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/Fluids_c_10.html

I run the plain old store branded cheapo DOT3 from Autozone or Oreillys/Napa/wherever, but I don't race.
Have never had issues with it.

Unless you race or perhaps live in the mountains etc anything else is probably a waste of money in a 2200 lb car.

[Bruce2]

there is potential of residual fluid embedded in them. I am not saying that there would be but why chance it,

The risk is very low. The benefits are great. I like very much not working on my brake systems every few years.
The first car I converted had a complete brake system dissassembly and cleaning before using DOT 5. Many of the components were well used and old. No compatibility problems in the last 2 decades.
The second car I converted was a new Mexican Beetle I bought off the lot at a dealer in Mexico. When I did the pan swap there, I did the brake flushing only. Obviously all of the components were new.

[Ol'fogasaurus]

I'm glad you got away with it. I was strongly advised, by pros and where I got brake fluid and other supplies (a former mechanic), not to so I passed that and the reasons why not on.

Enjoy!

Lee

[Jim Ed]

I also used Valvoline Synpower a few years back... killed two brake systems within hours, one brake system was all new hydraulics and rubber hoses, the other was a top-off... both started bleeding out within hours, I will never touch it again.

I'm still wondering it it was mislabeled or something.

OReillys at least ate all the parts.

(I reported this in a similar thread years back, perhaps on TOS)

Hello Pile!
What kind of brake fluid do you use and recommend for aircooled VW's like aircooled Beetles? What do you use in your Type 3?
I noticed at motiveproducts.com they sell ATE SL brake fluid and some other brake fluids. Would you recommend this?
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/ ... p_161.html
http://motiveproducts.3dcartstores.com/Fluids_c_10.html

I run the plain old store branded cheapo DOT3 from Autozone or Oreillys/Napa/wherever, but I don't race.
Have never had issues with it.

Unless you race or perhaps live in the mountains etc anything else is probably a waste of money in a 2200 lb car.

That is what I use.
If they quit making the store brand DOT 3 what would you use?
TIA!

[ProctorSilex]

I have used Valvoline "synthetic" DOT 3 and 4 brake fluid in a Miata with no problem. I do not think it had the Synpower trademark on it though (white and blue bottle). I switched to ATE Typ 200 for track practice and it was good. I am using Pentosin DOT 4 for the track now, which has also been good. I recently found some Motul that I never opened and forgot I had (no idea how it performs).
I get my brakes HOT. Porterfield pads disintegrated on me. I have had soft pedal puckering a few times which taught me that brakes are more important than ponies. One of the fluids (think it was the Valvoline) had a black cloud in it on the same day that the Porterfield pads disintegrated.

[Piledriver]

there is potential of residual fluid embedded in them. I am not saying that there would be but why chance it,

The risk is very low. The benefits are great. I like very much not working on my brake systems every few years.
The first car I converted had a complete brake system dissassembly and cleaning before using DOT 5. Many of the components were well used and old. No compatibility problems in the last 2 decades.
The second car I converted was a new Mexican Beetle I bought off the lot at a dealer in Mexico. When I did the pan swap there, I did the brake flushing only. Obviously all of the components were new.

No issues accumulating water in the system//rust?
Seems to me it would work fine if the brake fluid cap had a seal with an expanding rubber diaphragm like many cars.

I have always steered away from DOT5 for that reason.
My sons buggy has cnc brake resivouirs with the diaphragms, and gets driven infrequently... might be a good candidate. (my spell checker cant spell it either)

The rubber hoses are a cheap consumable.
I replace all 4 regularly if any even start to show external cracks and if in any doubt.

[Bruce2]

there is potential of residual fluid embedded in them. I am not saying that there would be but why chance it,

The risk is very low. The benefits are great. I like very much not working on my brake systems every few years.
The first car I converted had a complete brake system dissassembly and cleaning before using DOT 5. Many of the components were well used and old. No compatibility problems in the last 2 decades.
The second car I converted was a new Mexican Beetle I bought off the lot at a dealer in Mexico. When I did the pan swap there, I did the brake flushing only. Obviously all of the components were new.

No issues accumulating water in the system//rust?

I've had many armchair experts who've never had any experience with DOT 5 tell me that I must have lots of water in my brake system since I never bleed them and it's been over 20 years. But you would think that water would cause rust, then leaks. Nothing!
You're right, the point of entry would be the filler cap. Every time I push the pedal, it breathes in damp air. Then the moisture would condense.
I did a test once by adding a bit of water to some DOT 5 in a glass jar. Water sinks to the bottom just like if you added water to oil. If you look at the bottom of the stock dual cct reservoir, surrounding the two outlets are a raised wall so that any dirt will stay in the reservoir. So would any water. But there's never any water in there when I look.